Dna And Its Origins

[Khandro]

In the light of new findings, DNA is even more beautiful and complex than we imagined, considering that it was in existence in the early life-forms on the planet, doesn't any theory of the origin of life by a blind series of chemical accidents seem preposterous ?
Surely only the most unimaginative and feeble-minded could believe in this.

[Khandro]

My wife has gone away to Hamburg for the week so I'm in complete charge of the kitchen. For breakfast I made Huevos Rancheros, tonight, I think I might try primordial soup. If I find anything moving about in it, I'll let you know.

[jim360]

"That statement is not really doing him an injustice, more like making yourself sound like a total prat. "

Funnily enough, I would have thought the same of anyone who says that Aristotle was "not often wrong".

Still, I'll admit that I've not read all that much of his works. But would you agree with my statement that he did not like testing theories by experiment?

[jomifl]

A week sounds about right for things to start moving about in your soup..

[Hypognosis]

@Theland

//And what about the rest of us who only ask the simple questions?
Mutations responsible for the length of a protein and therefore additional,information in the dna? //

Actually, what I referred to was mutations where DNA is lengthened by the erroneous splicing-in of a second copy of an extant stretch of DNA.

The gene product could just as easily fail to complete (say a reading-frame error turns a triplet into a "stop" codon) as end up being a longer protein chain. By being longer it might fold up in a suboptimal way and could be deleterious to the cell, in terms of reduced functionality but increased resource use.

Then again, more DNA means more opportunity for further mutations and enhanced or radically changed functionality could come about. This is roughly how a species becomes more diverse. It takes hundreds of divergences before full speciation comes about.


//How did Stephen C Meyer miss this nugget?//

Maybe he hasn't read that far yet? People can decide they've seen enough to make their minds up and off they go on their lecture tour, making a packet. Why stop to learn more?


//And why with labs, computers and human brains have we not created life in the test tube as the evolutionists claim is possible? //

We're doing it wrong(ly), that's why! (lol)

//Sorry to ask you to come down to my level folks.//

No "down" to it. You're over there and we're over here. It's unlikely to improve your income level to learn this stuff but by all means be curious about it.

[Khandro]

jomifl; :0)
Jim; Re. your, Aristotle is a total berk - I've not read all that much, stance. I don't think I'll bother responding to that, stick to your test tubes old son, and may your Bunsen burner never flicker.

[jim360]

Ho hum.

I may not have read much of him directly, but he did feature prominently in a History of Maths course I attended, and the lecturer there basically didn't like Aristotle very much (understatement). So it's not a completely uninformed opinion; and it certainly is true that, rightly or wrongly (and often wrongly, which is the point!), Aristotle's views were held as the highest authority for 1500+ years before they were seriously challenged. So your "not often wrong" assertion surprises me. Hence I asked you a sincere question about (my understanding of) his views on experiment. Any chance you could answer that, please?

[Peter Pedant]

History of Math courses
apparently they make bright young men like yourself do it
or else otherwise the maths students may not write a sentence of English for three years !

yup

and they cant say ok this week we are doing MacBeth because no one would turn up the next week ....

anyway - Khandro seems to be deliberately cooling off the level of this discussion with lines and put downs and waggish japes like
"I'm having Miso Soup tonight - my mother used to call it that because she made it she used to say My! and So ! - I wonder when it will fly around the room like an albatross or eskimo ? ! [ or in fact when she will ]"

or: " I read Dicken last night and he wrote in Tale of Two Cities that Miss Pross had made some wobbly jelly for the priddy heroine. It is now crawling towards me like the Creature from the Swamp. DO you think it is alive or have I taken the wrong sleeping tablets ? "

anyway good to read your comments Jim

[Khandro]

From memory jim, I remember he got it wrong on decomposition of organic material; he thought that when meat became maggoty and began to rot that the process began from within, but it was well over 2,000 years ago and without the benefit of optical instroments, so maybe even you would forgive him that.
It took a long time to discover it was caused by flies; discovered by (can't remember who) by placing fresh meat in a completely sealed container. An experiment of which you would no doubt approve.

[Peter Pedant]

Pasteur Kh it was pasteur who screwed ( ha! ) the idea of spontaneous generation

http://www.pasteurbrewing.com/pasteur-experiment-swan-neck-flask.html

and
// stick to your test tubes old son, and may your Bunsen burner never flicker.//

kh - mathematicians dont DO things like light Bunsen Burners
They sit around all day with pencils stuck in their mouths staring at a blank bit of paper as far as I can tell

[Peter Pedant]

// An experiment of which you would no doubt approve.//

ex[erimental mathematicians ?
Do they exist ? - or do they exist in the same way that Miss Pross' wobbly jelly existed ? that is if you can think of it - then it exists....

[jim360]

"...maybe even you would forgive him [not performing that experiment]."

This is missing my point. Suppose someone suggests a theory but notes that it requires an experiment that currently cannot be performed in order to test properly. Then if they end up being wrong it's just unfortunate.

The accusation I've laid at Aristotle's door is not that he didn't perform experiments that he wasn't able to, but that he actively discouraged experiment as a means of understanding the world. Very different thing, no?

Is that true or not? According to many, yes, apparently. He was too keen on thinking things through as opposed to practical investigation, and that attitude stuck for a long time.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Didn't he dissect live tortoises?

[vetuste_ennemi]

...I mean Aristotle.

[Peter Pedant]

Jim you did your history of math course

but you should have done History and Philosophy of Science ( hiss and poss as they used to say ) - and then you wouldnt ask why the empirical method gained eminence in the 1680s and not the 300s BC - you would know why

why didnt Aristolte used the experimental method is like asking why Newton didnt design nuclear reactors ...

[I can hear Kh slurping his seething animal soup which started off vegetable earlier in the evg in the corner ... ]

[Khandro]

PP, No movement so far (interpretations of this manifold!)

[Hypognosis]

Try increasing your dietary fibre intake, Khandro. You can then get on with finishing the first movement of your symphony.

[Theland]

Hypo - thank you.
I'm sure Mr Meyer would not be as eager as Dawkins to run off and make a buck.

[Theland]

Heist watched a YouTube video, Staggering Improbability of one protein by evolution. Look it up and what do you think? Don't know how to post a link on this iPad

[jomifl]

Theland, he doesn't need to run of and make a buck, he was given a million of them.

[Hypognosis]

@Theland

//Staggering Improbability of one protein by evolution. Look it up and what do you think?//

I think he is actively trying to damage the learning process for schoolchildren and adults alike.

Remember when flying was thought impossible? He's like one of the people who went around, waving their arms and saying "don't be ridiculous, it is impossible. If God had meant us to fly, he would gave given us wings!"

Dreamers drive human progress. He isn't one of them.