Darwin’S Doubt

[naomi24]

Watching Steve Backshall's Extreme Mountain Challenge last night, he trapped a large wasp. He explained that this particular variety of wasp stings spiders, paralysing them, and then proceeds to lay its eggs inside the paralysed body. The hatchlings eat the spider from the inside – avoiding the vital organs in order to keep the spider alive - hence a source of fresh food is guaranteed. He said that Darwin’s discovery of this wasp and this process caused him to doubt the existence of a beneficent God.

Food for thought?

[Old_Geezer]

One doesn't deliberately design that. One starts the whole thing off and something like that comes into being, and clearly there must be a reason not to continually intervene or else you'd be seeing the big hand in the sky.

Cruelty seems a very strange thing to have caused a disbelief in a deity. No one here can look into the "mind" of a deity and understand why things are left to carry on as they end up doing. And who is to say that a deity's definition of beneficence is the same as mankind's, or even that what seems cruel in the short term doesn't still work out to be best in the longer run ?

[Khandro]

O.G. Excellent post !!

[naomi24]

OG, //One doesn't deliberately design that. One starts the whole thing off and something like that comes into being,//

So for those who insist that intelligent design is responsible for everything, suddenly the less savoury bits are the work of evolution? That's convenient. Funny how it's never God's fault.

//Cruelty seems a very strange thing to have caused a disbelief in a deity.//

We're not talking about any old deity here - we're talking about a beneficent deity.

//And who is to say that a deity's definition of beneficence is the same as mankind's//

Mankind appears to think it is.

[Khandro]

naomi; You really do not understand (or refuse to) the concept of intelligent design. It is evolution itself which is part of nature's design, how individual life-forms evolve is not pre-ordained.
Evolution of the species is still very much underway and is an embedded unstoppable fact of life.

[naomi24]

Khandro, oh, I understand it. An omnipotent, omniscient God designed evolution and that wasp is just one of the results. No surprises for him there! He’s either omnipotent and omniscient or he isn’t, so which is it?

[Old_Geezer]

ID/Creationism is one of the extreme forms of belief. I'm unsure it even needs to be tied to beneficence. I hope I covered the idea of beneficence and how one can not see the big picture to be able to identify when it is absent.

[naomi24]

//D/Creationism is one of the extreme forms of belief.//

I don't think such a belief is so unusual, OG.

[Old_Geezer]

I think it is among the more advanced societies.

[Old_Geezer]

I think it is among the more advanced societies.

[Old_Geezer]

I think it is among the more advanced societies.

[naomi24]

I don’t think so, OG. The children at our local Church of England primary school are taught intelligent design. Evolution is not on the agenda.

[Khandro]

naomi;// The children at our local Church of England primary school are taught intelligent design. Evolution is not on the agenda.//

Perhaps you would benefit from attending these classes. If these children are being taught about intelligent design,(and I'm pleased to hear it) then evolution is on the agenda.
They will not be being taught that Genesis is factual.

[Cloverjo]

Naomi, that's terrible.
My son went to a CoE primary school, and was very interested in its teachings of Jesus and whatnot. Thankfully, he is now an atheist, having grown up and thought about things a bit more.
Scary that some schools are still perpetuating that stuff.

[Khandro]

Cloverjo; You may now congratulate yourself that he is now a prime target for Islamification.

[naomi24]

Khandro, Khandro, I know what they’re taught, and evolution is not on the agenda. No one ever told them that they are descended from apes – and no one at that school will ever tell them.

//They will not be being taught that Genesis is factual.//

No, they are taught that one day in Genesis doesn’t really mean one day …..

//Cloverjo; You may now congratulate yourself that he is now a prime target for Islamification. //

Gosh! That's a big claim. You need to qualify that, Khandro.

[Khandro]

//Gosh! That's a big claim. You need to qualify that, Khandro.//

Do you not recall the thread of a few months ago which linked to an article in the Spectator by a mother whose son exactly fitted the bill of the above, and had been approached by young Muslims and had converted. He became transformed into verbally abusing his parents and much worse?

Young self-professed "atheists" are the targets of these groups.

[naomi24]

Khandro, no I don’t recall it, but one child? Is that what you’re basing your claim on?

[Khandro]

n.// but one child?//

Just 'one child' whose mother wrote an article for the Spectator about it.
Muslim children starting the process of radicalization of non-aligned other children is happening every day.
A teacher here has written to say how horrified she is to hear what comes out of the mouths of some of the kids in her class. Children aligned to other religions, though despised, are not targeted, the most vulnerable are those who declare themselves as atheists. She says by the way, how she dare not let it be known that she has Jewish origins.

How times have changed since my school days.

[Old_Geezer]

Your local CofE primary school seems to be failing to perform its function, if what you tell us is so. Maybe you should report it to OFSTED ?

[naomi24]

Khandro, //A teacher here has written ...//

Where?