One Or Two Gods

[Lonnie]

First, as I don't often pop in nowadays, just like to wish everyone a Happy New Year.

Now, my Question, which I think has probably been debated before, is, in the Old Testament, God was a God of war, killed scores of people himself, ordered various killings, taking of countries, and if you forsook him, he punished you.

In the new Testament, God has become forgiving, peaceful, benevolent, against near enough everything that he was for in the old Testament, so, Do we actually have two Gods, or a schizophrenic God.

I personally, am not anymore a believer, but love debating Theology, and would be very interested your answers and theories.

Thanks.

[naomi24]

Hello Lonnie, how lovely to see you. I've got to go out now but I'll be back to your question later. In the meantime a very Happy New Year to you.

[douglas9401]

The heads of main worldwide cults seem to agree on one god with many names.
That however is as far as harmony is allowed to intrude into their particular circle of mystery and imagination.

[wildwood]

Is the Noah fable not in the Old Testament?

In the New testament they would have had to make him a goodie. Murdering all but 8 people on Earth merely because almost all were not aware of his existence is not a good look for an icon.

[naomi24]

Morning Lonnie, I used to think that God had undergone a miraculous transformation but that was when I considered myself a Christian and before I’d studied the subject in any depth. Like most other people, I simply believed what I was taught to believe. I now conclude that God didn’t change – simply the perception of him that was promulgated by the real founders of Christianity – none of whom were Jesus. The authors of the books of the New Testament, their numerous subsequent editors, and the councils that, hundreds of years after the event, decided what should be included and what excluded, in my opinion, made a lot of mistakes, retaining some very curious and highly questionable passages - for example the genealogy of Jesus as chronicled in Matthew’s gospel. That the alleged Son of God should be recorded as the progeny of Joseph whose line is traced back through the generations is irreconcilable. Furthermore, it is very clear from the texts that Jesus was a Jew and nothing other than a Jew, who said that his message was for the Jews alone. Additionally he taught that the ‘law’– the Jewish law recorded in what we now call the Old Testament - must be kept. For Christianity to make sense, all of that should have been removed from the New Testament writings. Those who laid the foundations of Christianity as we know it today either missed the glaring errors or chose to ignore them, insisting that, with the coming of Christ, came a new Covenant with God, thereby negating his original Covenant with Abraham. By portraying God as loving and forgiving rather than the wrathful and vengeful monster of the Old Testament, and with the promise of a place in heaven thrown in, they rendered the religion far more attractive to the polytheistic gentiles they were targeting. All very convenient. A bargain in fact!

Actually, I’m of the opinion that in a world ruled by Rome, Jesus was an insurgent and possibly the rightful ‘King of the Jews’ – an idea that I find absolutely fascinating and entirely possible - but that’s another story.

[andy-hughes]

I would agree with Naomi that if Jesus is viewed simply as a historical figure, he would indeed be seen by Rome as an insurgent, and Rome obtained and maintained its grip on its empire by ensuring that such insurgency was dealt with swiftly and finally.

An insurgent would merit a common criminal's death, and that is what Jesus received.

In terms of the writings that followed - my view remains unchanged from my teens - mankind has been hardwired to ponder his existence from caveman times onwards, when he looked to the sun as a superior life-giving force, because it helped him feel comfortable to understand that a higher power made things happen.

That mental attitude has never altered, only the sophistication of the concept of the 'higher power' has evolved.

[keyplus90]

Just let me know when you have got to a conclusion,

1 - is it one?
2 - or are there 2?
3 - Or none exist?

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, evidence suggests he didn't die on the cross.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, my conclusion? None exist. I am, however, fond of history.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - //andy-hughes, evidence suggests he didn't die on the cross. //

I bow to your superior education in this area - but I suggest it would chime with the need for the story to work, that the Son Of God died a criminal's death - would you agree?

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, as with so much of the ‘Jesus narrative’ it chimes with ancient prophecy – easily fulfilled by writers from a later era determined to demonstrate accomplishment.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - I can see the point you make - I would further suggest that the chance to build in a 'repression' aspect to paint the Roam occupiers in a bad light was not missed - political propaganda was obviously alive and well even in those ancient times.

[Zacs-Master]

or, Naomi, rewrite the subjugating narrative into language that their contemporary heads of state and church want to use against their populace.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, // I would further suggest that the chance to build in a 'repression' aspect to paint the Roam occupiers in a bad light was not missed //

I think it more likely that the gospels were written with the demonization of the Jews in mind - not the Romans.

[Khandro]

It is possible to be a Christian without reading or bothering about the Old Testament, but when Jesus quoted the Holy Scriptures to talk about God and his relationship to humanity, he didn't quote from the bible (it hadn't been written)
He quoted from the Hebrew scriptures, the “Old Testament.”. He taught from the Torah, he both expanded and refined the law as it was understood by the scholars of the day, He believed it was important and valuable, but lacked sufficiency.
As naomi says, he didn't teach that which we today call Christianity; that has developed and is still developing because it is dynamic unlike Islam.
I find it sad when people find that because they can not accept the God of the Old Testament they think therefore that they have to eschew their religion (European Christianity) as a whole.
Wake up, come back, we're being overrun!

[naomi24]

Khandro, //As naomi says, he didn't teach that which we today call Christianity//

That's because he was a Jew - as is the OP. I really don't think the current situation the west is facing with Islam is applicable to this thread.

[Peter Pedant]

my local priest wrote about this er dichotomy

specifically as a christian
he wrote a book on the Jews view of God in AD zero or thereabouts
" God BC"
it is here on amazon and priddy cheap
https://www.amazon.co.uk/God-B-C-Anthony-Phillips/dp/0192139592

which is kinda what you are asking - so buy it and read
or possibly you arent asking then dont bother to buy or read

[locusts]

The creator of the universe ( God Yahweh ) the God who make promises will fulfill them . He actually -is a loving God to his family and will take care of them. When you read many passages in the Bible (old testament) you will find the nonbelievers noted the nonbelievers who came up against the Israelites were enemy's-- enemy who did not believe in the true God . They believe in image and worshiped the Idol . they sacrifice their own children to these idol's in a fire. So this is why are creator annihilated those who would not believe in him. they had an opportunity to do so .but they did not excepted his laws' just like today we can do the same. And God is loyal to his people, the ones to try to the live by his rules and regulations'

Exodus 6:7Lexham English Bible (LEB)

7 And I will take you as my people,[a] and I will be your God,[b] and you will know that I am Yahweh your God, who brought you out from under the forced labor[c] of Egypt.


Ezekiel 14:8Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 and I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.