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Eternal Damnation In Hell.
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I understand that Jesus believed in eternal damnation and punishment, and that the sin against the Holy Ghost would never be forgiven in this life or the next. Do many modern christians believe this? If they believe the NT is true, then they should believe it. If not, then surely they are just picking out the 'best' bits, i'e' the bits that agree with their own innate decency.
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Matthew 13: The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth
Mark 9, it's an unquenchable fire.
Jesus also compared it to Gehenna, a sort of permanently smouldering rubbish tip in Jerusalem. He did speak in parables a lot, which indicates a taste for metaphor and parallels, which in turn indicates he might have envisioned it as a place of permanent spiritual torment rather than a phsyical site for bodies.
Mark 9, it's an unquenchable fire.
Jesus also compared it to Gehenna, a sort of permanently smouldering rubbish tip in Jerusalem. He did speak in parables a lot, which indicates a taste for metaphor and parallels, which in turn indicates he might have envisioned it as a place of permanent spiritual torment rather than a phsyical site for bodies.
//They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth//
Think that I'd be gnashing my teeth in a furnace as well :-)
//it's an unquenchable fire//
Noticed that you quoted that from a different gospel as though the two go together? An unquenchable fire doesn't mean that the 'souls' in it are unquenchable as well. Anyway if you look into it a bit more deeply you may see how the first century jews used this kind of metaphor. And it wasn't meant to be taken as an eternal suffering.
Think that I'd be gnashing my teeth in a furnace as well :-)
//it's an unquenchable fire//
Noticed that you quoted that from a different gospel as though the two go together? An unquenchable fire doesn't mean that the 'souls' in it are unquenchable as well. Anyway if you look into it a bit more deeply you may see how the first century jews used this kind of metaphor. And it wasn't meant to be taken as an eternal suffering.
Atheist. Eternal punishment is not eternal 'punishing'!
You need to research how first century jews viewed things. The Old Testament (from which, obviously, the new testament grew out off) had no concept of punishment after death.
Jude 7 talks about how Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with everlasting/eternal fire. But the author of Jude obviously didnt believe that those towns were still burning did he?
You need to research how first century jews viewed things. The Old Testament (from which, obviously, the new testament grew out off) had no concept of punishment after death.
Jude 7 talks about how Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with everlasting/eternal fire. But the author of Jude obviously didnt believe that those towns were still burning did he?
Nailit, I feel that you are still in the thrall of the bible a bit. Quibbling about which book matters, and what the old men really meant, is not very fruitful. To me it seems evident that the books were written by men and edited by other men. It's a bit pointless to spend years of your life analysing these old scripts. I don't mean to imply that you are doing this, but generations of Jewish, Christian and Muslim scholars have been raising kids to memorise this stuff, and years of memorising gives it a spurious validity. Neither you nor I knows what they meant. I just presume they meant what they said.
The Bible was written in days when VERY few people could read. Those that could read were mainly Monks in monasteries who saw it as their duty to 'Spread the Word of the Lord'
I do not know where you get the 'Eternal Damnation " bit from, Jesus definitely did not say it. What he DID say was ''He who Believes in me shall not die, but have Eternal Life " (St John's Gospel)
I do not know where you get the 'Eternal Damnation " bit from, Jesus definitely did not say it. What he DID say was ''He who Believes in me shall not die, but have Eternal Life " (St John's Gospel)
Atheist, as someone who does not believe in a Deity what keeps you from doing just what you want? You presumably do not go round stealing other peoples possessions or harming people. So is it 'Human Decency' , 'consideration for others' or something else ? Also Jesus said '' There is no sin that can not be forgiven '' & ''Whosoever believeth in me shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
///EDDIE51
Atheist, as someone who does not believe in a Deity what keeps you from doing just what you want? You presumably do not go round stealing other peoples possessions or harming people. So is it 'Human Decency' , 'consideration for others' or something else ? ///
EDDIE cant answer for Atheist (and despite what Theland thinks...or at least thought....we arnt the same OP),
But, speaking for myself, I have no desire to go around venting my anger on all and sundry, I have no desire to go murdering those that have wronged me or stealing from people just because I can, Thats called been human. I have sexual desires but I dont want/need/desire to go around raping women to fulfill those desires. I lack things in life but those things arnt mine to take because I lack a belief system.
Ive done some *** things in life because im human. Ive also NOT done some *** things in life...because Im human!
Atheist, as someone who does not believe in a Deity what keeps you from doing just what you want? You presumably do not go round stealing other peoples possessions or harming people. So is it 'Human Decency' , 'consideration for others' or something else ? ///
EDDIE cant answer for Atheist (and despite what Theland thinks...or at least thought....we arnt the same OP),
But, speaking for myself, I have no desire to go around venting my anger on all and sundry, I have no desire to go murdering those that have wronged me or stealing from people just because I can, Thats called been human. I have sexual desires but I dont want/need/desire to go around raping women to fulfill those desires. I lack things in life but those things arnt mine to take because I lack a belief system.
Ive done some *** things in life because im human. Ive also NOT done some *** things in life...because Im human!
as though the two go together
well they do, they're the first and second books in the standard New Testament, and they're describing the same thing, you're put in the fire and stay there for ever. I don't think the idea is to quench your soul; it wouldn't be much of a punishment if your soul was burnt out straight away, you're supposed to stay conscious and suffer.
As to whether it was intended metaphorically or not, who knows. It's hard enough to get your meaning across accurately today on the internet, with people never knowing if you're serious or joking; assessing exactly what someone meant 2000 years ago has to be speculation. But the best default position is probably to take them literally unless there's evidence to the contrary.
well they do, they're the first and second books in the standard New Testament, and they're describing the same thing, you're put in the fire and stay there for ever. I don't think the idea is to quench your soul; it wouldn't be much of a punishment if your soul was burnt out straight away, you're supposed to stay conscious and suffer.
As to whether it was intended metaphorically or not, who knows. It's hard enough to get your meaning across accurately today on the internet, with people never knowing if you're serious or joking; assessing exactly what someone meant 2000 years ago has to be speculation. But the best default position is probably to take them literally unless there's evidence to the contrary.
//assessing exactly what someone meant 2000 years ago has to be speculation//
No it doesn't, a bit of study into the literature of the time can put things into perspective.
//But the best default position is probably to take them literally//
Really? Why? Do you like the idea of people suffering unimaginable agony for eternity?
No it doesn't, a bit of study into the literature of the time can put things into perspective.
//But the best default position is probably to take them literally//
Really? Why? Do you like the idea of people suffering unimaginable agony for eternity?
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