Do You Prefer Fact Or Fiction?

[nailit]

After 55 years on this earth I prefer fact.
As much as it pains me, as much as it upsets me, I prefer facts over faith.
A few weeks ago I was nearly suicidal. Still prefer facts to 'faith'. If I had ended my life then, I would have been dead, end off, no atheist in foxhole here.
Just dont understand this religious preoccupation with living forever....
I honesty just dont get it?
What the hell are you going to to FOREVER?
It would be like watching a game of football that went on forever...there wouldnt be a point,

[mibn2cweus]

Theland -
Then I appeal to some AB arbiters to agree with me or point out where I am found wrong.

You MIBs, seem to claim that the universe must exist in order that it can create and observe itself.

I claim that is absurd, as the created thing cannot contain within itself the means or will to create itself.

Arbiters - Lay aside your atheism for a moment and arbitrate reasonably and logically on the above propositions.
Thank you.05:14 Sun 30th May 2021

For the time being, I will neither confirm or deny Theland's propositions. I will however point out that neither of those propositions properly characterise an assertion made by me.

In the meantime, I also welcome and would appreciate any critiques or clarifications of anything either of us have actually posted that anyone would care to offer.

[Theland]

Ditto with thanks.

[mibn2cweus]

Apparently R&S is not the most ideal category for appeals to reason. But then, what category in AB is?

[naomi24]

A bit of cross-examination needed.

Theland, If God is outside the universe, where is he? Where is outside the universe?

[mibn2cweus]

Brings a whole new meaning to, "Out of sight is . . . out of mind".

[naomi24]

Haaa! It does indeed. A curious concept.

[Theland]

Outside, above and beyond our universe?
I'm surprised that is being asked.
Even the atheist scientists contemplate other dimensions.
God is Spirit.
God inhabits the true reality of the spirit world. (Poor terminology that does not capture the truth properly).

[naomi24]

Scientists contemplate other physical universes - not imaginary spiritual ones. You’re taking pure gobbledegook, theland. I find in favour of Mibs.

[Theland]

If your opinion was important ..... Its not!

[Khandro]

'There's is a world of difference between truth and facts, - facts can obscure the truth.'

[naomi24]

You requested an arbiter, theland. I obliged. If you don’t want opinions that don’t suit you, best you don’t invite opinion at all.

[Theland]

Please don't post your instructions, they are worthless.

[naomi24]

Why waste my time then? You asked for an arbiter. If you don’t like the result that’s your problem.

[Theland]

If I wasted your time I apologise.
MIBs seems to think that the thing created can answer the question regarding the creator.
I disagree.
Can the pot identify the potter?
No!
Not without revelation.
MIBs is stuck in this created thing, and is blind to the Creator, but continues to examine his surroundings looking for clues.
As long as he ignores revelation, he will always be blind.

[Atheist]

Khandro, where do you get these meaningless quotes from? It's not big and clever and grown-up to parrot pseudo profound gibberish.

[naomi24]

No, theland, a pot can’t identify the potter, no more than you can identify a solution.

[Theland]

Oh I can!
I heed revelation!

[naomi24]

The only man in the world who can positively claim to ‘know’. A miracle.

[Theland]

There are many miracles about.
If your bezzy mate the vicar doesn't understand this, she is taking money under false pretences.

[naomi24]

What on earth are you talking about? Just out of interest do you carry on like this with your family?