Evil And Free Will.

[nailit]

This is something that perplexed me even as a believer...
The Evils of this world (child abuse, rape, murder etc..)
Are all attributed...by religious believers...to God having given Mankind freewill.

You and I have freewill. (made in the image of God after all)
If you, or I, saw a child been abused, or an attempted rape taking place, or murder been plotted, we would take action (using our freewill) to prevent it wouldnt we?
Understandable if you did nothing out of fear for you own well being but the vast majority of humans would intervene to prevent such atrocities.

Presumably God also has freewill but does nothing.
And his followers then blame people for having freewill for the evils which are perpetrated.
Where was God intervening when a young child cries out to him as she/he is been horrifically sexually abused /raped / murdered?
You would intervene wouldnt you? Why doesnt your God?

A) He's not compassionate?
B) He CANT intervene?
C) He doesnt exist?

Can't think of a 'D'

[pixie374]

I think "free will" is often more seen as a get-out clause. That, it isn't God's fault. Even though he invented people, and is omnipotent.

[andy-hughes]

pixie - // I think "free will" is often more seen as a get-out clause. That, it isn't God's fault. Even though he invented people, and is omnipotent. //

I could not agree more.

The 'free will' argument offered by fervents with their endless hang-wringing 'What can I do ..." attititude is what vexes me more about them than anything.

It's a giant Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free Card that fits absolutely any and all of the horrible things that happen, either natural or man-made.

If I created something, and gave it 'free will', and then saw it use that 'free will' to make a consummate disaster out of itself and everything I made, I doubt I'd simply sit back and not offer some sort of guidance - that's what I would do as a loving father, what's wrong with God doing the same thing?

[jourdain2]

If you believe in a force for good (in my case, known as God); then you must also believe in a force for evil - traditionally known as the Devil. Then you throw free will into the mix. I do believe that there must be a force for evil and that we see it working through people, same as we see a force for good working through people.

I know, I'm simplistic, foolish etc. and I don't feel inclined to argue for hours. Seems obvious to me that every positive has a negative.

[pixie374]

I think you are right, jourdain. I just don't understand why you refer them to "god" or "the devil"?

[jourdain2]

Possibly because that's how I grew up and I find it easier to think in those concepts to begin with. Not really important (unless I was Dennis Wheatley reincarnated, of course).

[pixie374]

Not important, really- just it seems to be part of human nature anyway. So, I wondered why we needed an extra explanation?

[nailit]

The question was aimed at believers in a God who is all compassionate and all powerful at the same time.
Clearly couldnt (or wouldnt) be both.

Another example would be Allah.
All merciful and all just at the same time.
An oxymoron. Like small crowd, living dead or council worker!
You cannot be ALL Merciful and ALL just at the same time.

You cannot be COMPASSIONATE & OMNIPOTENT at the same time.

[nailit]

//You cannot be COMPASSIONATE & OMNIPOTENT at the same time//
At least not while knowing that there are beings on Earth that call out to you daily...and ignoring their cries!

[nailit]

Christians routinely thank God for THEIR meal, whilst ignoring millions of others who havnt got a god to thank for THEIR starvation.

[Peter Pedant]

chrissakes Nailit
in the witchcraft trials, they used to swear in cows and cokerels as witnesses
sure apparently that they would speak ( God would make them speak) to avoid a miscarriage of justice

so what about a _ this has been tried before ( free will la-la)
b. you dont really understand the doctrine of free will
c. the issue of evil in this world has evaded you
d. this is AB

I go for D - me

[nailit]

But its all to do with freewill, okeydokey!

[pixie374]

But which is it, PP?.Is God omnipotent or evil?

[pixie374]

He isn't, imv.

[Atheist]

It seems to me that evil is an adjective, not a noun. There isn't a bogeyman who is called Mr Evil. There isn't a Big Daddy who is called Mr God. There's just people who do good or bad things. Good or bad things is simply a human judgment of how we should treat each other. Non-human animals are a bit simpler and have different views; i.e. they don't on the whole don't reflect on the luxuries of life (e.g. should I forego a necessary mouthful?).

[pixie374]

Snort. Only one on here who really is (and no, not you!)

[nailit]

//chrissakes Nailit
in the witchcraft trials, //

Where did the Witcraft trials come into it?
What planet are you on?

[pixie374]

Animals go mostly by instinct. I don't think they "can" be evil.

[nailit]

The religious mods are about...
Be careful what I say...