Substitutes?

[Khandro]

Diversity, LGB rights, Black lives Matter, Global Warming, Insulate Britain, Veganism - the list continues.
Are many such issues really substitutes for the place once filled in people's lives (& hearts!) with religion?

"When men stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything."

G. K. Chesterton -

[Khandro]

nailit //Ah! so thats why I now believe in Leprechauns, Fairies, Flying saucers and the Yeti and the Loch ness monster???//

That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

[naomi24]

Khandro at 22.39, your boasting doesn’t make what he said any more sensible - or you any more sensible for offering it as an argument. It’s absolute nonsense.

[Peter Pedant]

“Faith begins precisely where thinking leaves off... it is something which, if you have it, you will not be able to explain to anyone else. "(kierkegaard)

Vulcan, khandro is prone to name-dropping. I think he thinks it impresses
Vulcan, Naomi is prone to ***. I think she thinks it fools people. My god it fools a fair chunk of AB !

apparentlu i can say this, according to Atheist she is more than able to bear it without complaining

now i would have thought---- being prone to Latin that it is a gloss on tertullian ( name ) Credo quia incredibilis ( ancient forrin)
"I believe because it is unbelievable"

I have said more than once - that faith is not subject to logic . Or else religion would be a matter of science. it isnt . it is a matter or er faith.

[Peter Pedant]

Pietism, thx Khandro, isnt a word on the lips of the average ABer,
and there is an interesting essay on wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietism

[Peter Pedant]

While scientists can learn about the world by observation, Kierkegaard emphatically denied that observation alone could reveal the inner workings of the world of the spirit - wiki - K

oh

[Zacs-Master]

The people of Russia had zero choice in accepting communism, plus, Communism did not replace religion.

Your ‘argument’ falls down at the first hurdle.

You used to be able to Mount a fairly coherent argument, Khandro. Not any more.

[Khandro]

Zacs; //Your ‘argument’ falls down at the first hurdle.
You used to be able to Mount a fairly coherent argument, Khandro. Not any more.//
Oh dear, I shall have sit on the naughty step, - but wait a minute,.... what's this?:

"The vast majority of people in the Russian Empire were, at the time of the revolution, religious believers, whereas the communists aimed to break the power of all religious institutions and eventually replace religious belief with atheism."

Religion in the Soviet Union - Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Religion_in_the_Soviet_...

[Peter Pedant]

// You used to be able to Mount a fairly coherent argument, Khandro. Not any more.//

khandro hasnt changed: you have. you just dont like what he is saying

and no one has said - opium is the religion of the people
that is a modified quote from marx, you dopes! - ter daah

[youngmafbog]

I think you may well have something there Khandro.

The vast majority of people need something to believe in, even fight for. Religion used to (well still does in some religions) provide this but in these more enlightened times where people question religion and find it wanting they will start to look for some other 'cause'.

The recent covid outbreak amply demonstrated this with the rise of the covidians. And the usual religious piousness followed too.

[naomi24]

Khandro, Fiveleaves, on the other thread, says that his morals are guided by his religion - or words to that effect - but atheists have usually reached their conclusions through a process of rationality and don’t need to be told how to think. I think it’s quite sad that grown men confess to needing guidance in that area. I wonder just what they would be without that guidance? We had a conversation recently about charities and I’ll repeat, the vast majority of major charities are secular….so why is atheism such a bad thing?

[Zacs-Master]

''"The vast majority of people in the Russian Empire were, at the time of the revolution, religious believers, whereas the communists aimed to break the power of all religious institutions and eventually replace religious belief with atheism."

Yes, but that wasn't the people's choice and in no way does it relate to your original argument of it being a substitute.

'khandro hasnt changed: you have. you just dont like what he is saying'

It's not that I don't like it, it simply makes no sense in the context of his original post.

[Khandro]

Zacs; //It's not that I don't like it, it simply makes no sense in the context of his original post.//

You seem, even for you, to be particularly dim on this. It was as stated on the Wikipedia link I gave, that the aims of the communist party of the USSR was EXACTLY to outlaw religions & replace them with communist ideology which IS what the OP is about, & as I said earlier, the plan didn't work out very well for them did it?


naomi; //....so why is atheism such a bad thing?//

So you're asking ME to tell YOU what's wrong with atheism; I wouldn't know, I'm not an atheist.

[Zacs-Master]

Khandro, it's not me being dim. I'll try to take you through it step by step, as a paragraph of English seems to be confusing for you.

1. Communism was imposed upon the populace of Russia. They had no choice in this, therefore it cannot be said to be a substitute for anything. Do you seriously believe that Communism completely quashed religious belief in Russia?

2. Because of the above, your OP (which made limited sense in the first instance), when applied to a communist state, becomes meaningless. Do you think that Russians are allowed to openly voice their opinions on Diversity, LGB rights, Black lives Matter, Global Warming, Veganism etc?

3. I think you have it completely the wrong way round about religion (hence my first post). Without it's doctrines and false morality, people are free to express their feelings about other aspects of life (however much you disagree with them!).

I hope that's a little clearer.

[Khandro]

Zacs; Doh! it's a very simple observation: communism was supposed to be a substitution for religion, but it didn't work.

That's it!

[Peter Pedant]

// it simply makes no sense in the context of his original post.//
try reading it again
or in the spirit of forward thinking AB - try reading it !
ter daah - - I think his thoughts are q bit eastery

[Zacs-Master]

No it wasn't. It was introduced to quash religion. You seem to be at odds with yourself now. First you write 'It was as stated on the Wikipedia link I gave, that the aims of the communist party of the USSR was EXACTLY to outlaw religions & replace them with communist ideology'

Note your use of the word 'Outlaw'.

You now choose to use the word 'Substitute'. Two completely different things.

I'd be interested to see you answer point 2 of my previous post.

[Zacs-Master]

Incidentally, Khandro, you might (not) like to take a look back at your posts about Russia being a non aggressive presence from a while back
https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1581257.html

I'll just leave that there.........

[jno]

ZM, I think Khandro has acknowledged that he got Putin wrong. Such confessions of error are pretty rare on AB.

[Zacs-Master]

Excellent. He's a few things to apologise for in his postings over the years, on here.

In Dec 2017 he wrote:
It's all about pretend fear of the big bad bear; Russia.
The EU has to have an enemy (though no one is threatening it). They want to make a European army and demonstrate to we poor defenceless suckers how they are protecting us, and without them, Mr Putin would overrun the EU parliament an enslave us all.


Now, if he'd only admit he's made a complete hash of this thread, all would be good.

[Atheist]

Khandro, is your OP really saying that all the issues listed (Diversity.......Veganism) are silly or wrong or wicked?