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God and the Middle East Mayhem
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With everything that is going on in the Middle East and parts of Africa in the name of god(s) surely we are at the stage in our understanding of science that there can't be any gods. What sort of god would allow this kind of murder and mayhem in his name?
I can understand when man lived in caves hearing thunder and thinking the gods were upset, but now in the 21st century it defies belief?
Can anyone with an ounce of intelligence really believe in god?
I can understand when man lived in caves hearing thunder and thinking the gods were upset, but now in the 21st century it defies belief?
Can anyone with an ounce of intelligence really believe in god?
Answers
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Ah, I like that Supernick thinks outside the box!
Maybe we were God's test run? Or better still, what about the other theory that God doesn't exist but in fact we were dumped on Earth by 'aliens' as an experiment to see how we would evolve.
The question boils down to; How do we rid the world of murder and genocide? And Jake is right. There are no answers at present.
Maybe we were God's test run? Or better still, what about the other theory that God doesn't exist but in fact we were dumped on Earth by 'aliens' as an experiment to see how we would evolve.
The question boils down to; How do we rid the world of murder and genocide? And Jake is right. There are no answers at present.
so would you prefer that God intervened struck down all the bad guys and ruled over us taking away all our choices? Every time a man made a choice which went against God's ways God struck him down, that includes all the other laws also, blasphemy, gossiping, lying, coveting, adultery etc etc. I'm not sure there would be many people left in the world.
I'm not sure that God can be held responsible for Man's choices.
If someone robbed a bank and when arrested and questioned said "But I did it for Leeds Rhinos, it was all for him, I swear" Would that make it your fault even though you hadn't asked him to commit the crime, he had chosen to do by himself, but gave you as the reason?
God doesn't start wars; man starts wars.
I'm not sure that God can be held responsible for Man's choices.
If someone robbed a bank and when arrested and questioned said "But I did it for Leeds Rhinos, it was all for him, I swear" Would that make it your fault even though you hadn't asked him to commit the crime, he had chosen to do by himself, but gave you as the reason?
God doesn't start wars; man starts wars.
I believe that god came as part of a evolutionary safety catch in our mind. We can think and so we can think of questions without answers like "what created teh universe etc" and to stop ourselves going mad from not having an answer we invent "god".
Also god is a handy little thing for controlling the masses of the easily led and allows select groups of people to attain masses of wealth. For example i was in morrocco for two weeks and there royal family is based on the phallacy that the king is a descendant of mohammed and as such anything said against him is considered "blasphemy"
The fact is the universe happened get over it and just enjoy it cause there is no happy pretty afterlife you just die and then you are as when you were not born. Believing in god simply hinders you.
as for how to stop genocide and killings in the name of god etc there is no one way of going about it but the first way it to educate people about others. the two ways genocide and killings and racsim occur are mainly through ignorance and stereotyping. It would also be useful to establish true (i.e periclean) democracy not the sham democracy we have now.
Also god is a handy little thing for controlling the masses of the easily led and allows select groups of people to attain masses of wealth. For example i was in morrocco for two weeks and there royal family is based on the phallacy that the king is a descendant of mohammed and as such anything said against him is considered "blasphemy"
The fact is the universe happened get over it and just enjoy it cause there is no happy pretty afterlife you just die and then you are as when you were not born. Believing in god simply hinders you.
as for how to stop genocide and killings in the name of god etc there is no one way of going about it but the first way it to educate people about others. the two ways genocide and killings and racsim occur are mainly through ignorance and stereotyping. It would also be useful to establish true (i.e periclean) democracy not the sham democracy we have now.
On a bit of a serious note, God was NEVER a peaceful God, Just read the Old Testament and see, anyway, If there really was an uprising in Heaven, as the story goes, when God threw the Devil out, he gave him the Earth as his domain, so the true God of Earth, is the Devil.
And the rest is history, or the now, or the future.
And the rest is history, or the now, or the future.
mimififi,
When you say, �God doesn't start wars; man starts wars� you are 100 percent correct. Would you also agree that what a person believes largely determines what they do, as this is the basis on which their choices are made?
The belief in the existence of �God�, is not lacking among the people of the middle east. Nor is their a lack of desire to do �God�s will� in this region. A large part of the problem may be that they do not agree on what �God�s will� is. What many of them do agree on is that those who disagree with their beliefs are �infidels� worthy of death. In addition many believe that rewards for giving �infidels� their just desserts awaits them beyond the grave. Such beliefs are a product of faith as well as literal translation of the texts on which their respective and incompatible religions are based.
Christians are not exempt from having a doctrine of intolerance: �If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.� Deuteronomy 13:6-10.
continued
When you say, �God doesn't start wars; man starts wars� you are 100 percent correct. Would you also agree that what a person believes largely determines what they do, as this is the basis on which their choices are made?
The belief in the existence of �God�, is not lacking among the people of the middle east. Nor is their a lack of desire to do �God�s will� in this region. A large part of the problem may be that they do not agree on what �God�s will� is. What many of them do agree on is that those who disagree with their beliefs are �infidels� worthy of death. In addition many believe that rewards for giving �infidels� their just desserts awaits them beyond the grave. Such beliefs are a product of faith as well as literal translation of the texts on which their respective and incompatible religions are based.
Christians are not exempt from having a doctrine of intolerance: �If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.� Deuteronomy 13:6-10.
continued
You may interpret this any way you choose, but the Koran has similar passages that are no more tolerant of the beliefs of others. But even though their �God� is not yours they are as entitled to their interpretations as you. But in the end it is not the interpretation nor the willingness to follow religious doctrines but the actions that follow from a belief system that relies solely on faith as its only �justification� that obscures the need to find a way for us to all live together in peace.
. . . Oh, by the way . . . "Hezbollah" means �party of God�.
I have consistently and will continue to decline any invitations to parties of that kind.
With the widening availability of ever more lethal technology today, isn't it time we take a closer look at the all too evident consequences of faith based belief systems? �God� has never and never will help us to find reasons to love one another here on this Earth and supposed commandments to do so continue to be ignored. The reason for this is that reason only responds to knowledge, and knowledge is not only incompatible with religious dogma but is condemned by it.
I love value and respect the rights of other human beings because I understand the reasons for doing so. Knowing that this is the only life I have to live has made it a clear and urgent necessity that I learn those reasons and live by them. Believing in a �God� of any kind (or in a life beyond the grave) is not conducive to a quest for understanding the advantages of living together in peace through the only way such an understanding can be achieved, through the practice of the unique ability we have so painstakingly acquired, the defining human quality of reason.
I have consistently and will continue to decline any invitations to parties of that kind.
With the widening availability of ever more lethal technology today, isn't it time we take a closer look at the all too evident consequences of faith based belief systems? �God� has never and never will help us to find reasons to love one another here on this Earth and supposed commandments to do so continue to be ignored. The reason for this is that reason only responds to knowledge, and knowledge is not only incompatible with religious dogma but is condemned by it.
I love value and respect the rights of other human beings because I understand the reasons for doing so. Knowing that this is the only life I have to live has made it a clear and urgent necessity that I learn those reasons and live by them. Believing in a �God� of any kind (or in a life beyond the grave) is not conducive to a quest for understanding the advantages of living together in peace through the only way such an understanding can be achieved, through the practice of the unique ability we have so painstakingly acquired, the defining human quality of reason.
True what you say about the Old Testament, though, in this age people who follow God should surely be acting in accordance with the Blood of the new covenent which stipulates "Turn the other cheek."
Regardless of whom you believe in; I still stand by what I said, simply because someone believes in something doesn't make the something responsible for 3rd party behaviour. It is the "He made me do it" arguement which I have to refute. We are all responsible for our own actions regardless of our religious persuasions and seeing as we should live in the new convenent we should not be killing and maiming in the name of gods as this is not the way of the new convenent. We should be removing the log in our own eye before we can remove the speck in someone elses, we should be giving our cloak aswell as our shirt and if someone should want to slap one cheek, we should offer the other also...
Each man is responsible for himself and the Christ-likeness or non-Christ-likeness he displays.
However, the Deuteronomy you site; was that not the ancient world's answer to how to deal with the "terrorists" of their community? What would you do with the terrorists who are responsible for 9/11 or 7/7 or all the violence in the M/E we've seen this week? If you could collect them all together and no categorically that they were in fact guilty, what would your judgement's be?
Regardless of whom you believe in; I still stand by what I said, simply because someone believes in something doesn't make the something responsible for 3rd party behaviour. It is the "He made me do it" arguement which I have to refute. We are all responsible for our own actions regardless of our religious persuasions and seeing as we should live in the new convenent we should not be killing and maiming in the name of gods as this is not the way of the new convenent. We should be removing the log in our own eye before we can remove the speck in someone elses, we should be giving our cloak aswell as our shirt and if someone should want to slap one cheek, we should offer the other also...
Each man is responsible for himself and the Christ-likeness or non-Christ-likeness he displays.
However, the Deuteronomy you site; was that not the ancient world's answer to how to deal with the "terrorists" of their community? What would you do with the terrorists who are responsible for 9/11 or 7/7 or all the violence in the M/E we've seen this week? If you could collect them all together and no categorically that they were in fact guilty, what would your judgement's be?
mimififi,
Thank You for your acknowledgement and reply to my previous post. I will not attempt a debate with you on the percepts of your particular brand of religious ideology as I know from experience that such attempts are futile. Those who stubbornly hold to the premise of the existence of a �God� and the efficacy of faith are immune from a rational pursuit for truth. What follows is an answer to your questions for the benefit of those who accept that reason is still the means to achieve this.
The only thing in the Deuteronomy text I perceive as terrorism is the call upon believers to kill those who would offer another choice in whom to believe and follow. I am, however, neither a theologian or a religious historian and therefore I am left to interpret the text as written, just as those who, divorced from reason and blinded by faith, would use it as an excuse to justify the killing of those whose beliefs differ from their own.
continued . . .
Thank You for your acknowledgement and reply to my previous post. I will not attempt a debate with you on the percepts of your particular brand of religious ideology as I know from experience that such attempts are futile. Those who stubbornly hold to the premise of the existence of a �God� and the efficacy of faith are immune from a rational pursuit for truth. What follows is an answer to your questions for the benefit of those who accept that reason is still the means to achieve this.
The only thing in the Deuteronomy text I perceive as terrorism is the call upon believers to kill those who would offer another choice in whom to believe and follow. I am, however, neither a theologian or a religious historian and therefore I am left to interpret the text as written, just as those who, divorced from reason and blinded by faith, would use it as an excuse to justify the killing of those whose beliefs differ from their own.
continued . . .
I agree that every individual is responsible for their actions, whether they choose their course of action on there own or are following the dictates of a religious ideology and that a homicidal intolerance for those whose beliefs are not the same as yours is not a justification for murder. There is, however, a just reason for taking a �human� life, when this becomes necessary to defend the life of those who are under attack by someone who denies their right to exist, simply because they do not follow their particular religious beliefs and worship another �God�. If you believe we must withhold such justice in this life and wait for it to be fulfilled beyond the grave, then your beliefs are complimentary to and complicit with terrorism.
What can you do to a corpse, provided you could find a scrap of what is left once they have completed their act of terror and are happily enjoying the glorious eternal rest their beliefs promised awaited them upon their faithful adherence to their God�s will? What would I do about the insanity we are witnessing in the Middle East? You are looking at it! I am appealing for a return to or an initiation of reason in charting a course for moral behavior in the twenty-first century.
What can you do to a corpse, provided you could find a scrap of what is left once they have completed their act of terror and are happily enjoying the glorious eternal rest their beliefs promised awaited them upon their faithful adherence to their God�s will? What would I do about the insanity we are witnessing in the Middle East? You are looking at it! I am appealing for a return to or an initiation of reason in charting a course for moral behavior in the twenty-first century.
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