Religion!!!!! Is it the reason behind all major war?

[bradtheman]

Is religion the main reason behind all major war, act of terrorism, satanic cult, ritualistic murders and rape? Maybe religion should be banned? After all what good does it do other than provoke hatred for non believers and opposers of religious regimes?

[wizard69]

What a ridiculous statment.I would certainly agree that a lot of blood has been spilt in the name of one religion or the other but ALL major wars? Nah...
And all rapists are religious? Pleeeeeeeeeeze!
Terrorism? Certainly a lot of religious fruitcakes about who are willing to blow themselves and others up in the name of some god or other but ALL? No....
Religion is certainly a malevolent force in this world bur it cant be blamed for everything.

[wizard69]

However, I totally agree with the last part of your post.By definition it cannot do anything else but be devicive against those of diferent religious persuasion.

[jno]

well, Christianity's message is quite clearly 'love they neighbour', though the Old Testament is rather more bloodthirsty towards idolaters. Some so-called Christians don't entirely seem to get the message, but that's hardly the fault of the religion. And I'm not clear how many rapists are acting on instructions from God; not a lot, I suspect.

[mibn2cweus]

The 'reason' for war is an inability to agree on how we are to live together in peace. Religion is tribalistic and therefore divisive. However, guns do not kill people, bullets do but someone has to pull the trigger. Religion has failed to provide the guidance that allows people to live responsibility and to respect each others rights and defend each others freedom but taking away religion does not fulfill this need.

Only when people have learned a better way to live will there be hope that they (or at least the overwhelming majority) will solve the problems that lead to war. Finding this way and demonstrating its superiority is no easy challenge to meet but force from any direction does not promote reason nor change the mind for the better. Defend ourselves we must but winning hearts and minds can not be achieved offensively.

It is not for our beliefs that we should be judged but for the consequences of our actions that are chosen based on those beliefs. Attempts to bypass this process which is essential to learning are futile. Finding reason and promoting its use is the only salvation for which there is any hope of achieving freedom from tyranny and thereby making a place for peace to dwell.

[dawkins]

Hmm, Quite simply, no. Most wars are to do with resources . differences between factions (religion/ethnicity) are invariably exploited to galvanise/mobilise support but this does not mean they are the causes.

Satanic cults and ritulistic murders don't really happen.

[bradtheman]

War of the roses? Religion.
Recent terrorism (taliban etc)? Religion
Manson, prime member of cult responsible for murder and rape of members
Waco, religious cult with mass religious suicide.

need i go on.....

[dawkins]

Quite frankly, yes. For starters the war of the roses was not a religious war but rather a civil war for throne of England (power and resources).and Charles Manson was a sociopath. The other two hardly represent the majority of wars and terrorism in the world.

[bradtheman]

I do not want to reel off every single religious war to you, I do not have the time. Check your history into wars of recent time and check out the cruelty and death with religion as the source for the hatred, Hitler did not like those Jews did he....and Saddam, what did he have against the Kurds? What football team they supported?????

[guyrkp]

I see both sides of the story here !! Dawkins !! Are you suggesting that religion is not responsible for any war in history ??, or are you just saying that its wrong to generalise on this ?

[bradtheman]

My question is purely that. A question. Not an opinion. I agree by the way with Dawkins as far as War of the Roses is concerned, was meant to be Crusades, only slightly different, blonde moment.

However check out the news, check out religious hatred from extremist factions recently. The church was always a very powerful force due to its financial support in past years, and as such all major wars of the times were supported/funded by the churches religion.

Heaven and Hell, believe and be good go to heaven, do not believe and be bad = go to hell, it can not be more simple than that.

Thanks for the opinions though, always a joy to hear people with a valid one!

[chakka35]

No, not all wars by any means but quite a few. And lots of other nastinesses as well, such as the Inquisition, the burning of heretics, those other evils that have already been mentioned and many more.
Atheists don't fight each other (or others) for the sake of atheism because they have nothing to prove in that area. An everyday atheist is content with the thought that he has logic, reason and commonsense on his side. He does not need to defend atheism; to a rational person it defends itself. But if someone with an untenable belief in god A meets someone with an untenable belief in an inimical god B they cannot use reason to resolve their differences; there is no reason in religion. So they often fight.
Yes, the world would be a better place without religion but there must be no question of banning it in a free society. Impossible anyway. You might as well try to ban astrology or flat-earthism.

[The Mack]

If atheists believe in science, I wonder what part that has played in wars?

[dawkins]

Guyrkp,

Firstly, it is a statement of fact that religion is not the main reason behind all major war. WW1 and 2 where both fought on colonial grounds. For example, W.W.II was the result of the allied response to empire building of Germany and Japan.

Many conflicts which are superficially religiously motivated have other causes. Compare the second Sudanese war fought between northern muslims and southern christians and the current conflict in Darfur fought between muslims (arab v's african). Both conflicts are the result of complex geopolitical power struggles exasperated by decolonization.

I dunno. is the argument that banning religion would prevent these conflicts?

[bradtheman]

Not all scientists are atheists though. Science provides the discovery of product, who uses them and how they use it is not an atheists belief to support war.

[Theland]

One religion doesnt want to live in peace together. It might want to live in peace, but not together. It must dominate, that is its religion.
Oh yes, it calls itself the "Religion Of Peace"

[dawkins]

of course, despite what I said about war, intolerance does tend to come mainly from those who purport to be religious and thus have some kind of imagined moral authority. Eh Theland?

[guyrkp]

Dawkins !! OK, i agree with some of your points but there are strong religious factors involved in these wars. I think if you read the comments by CHAKKA, that pretty much settles the argument.

Chakka !! That was a quality answer and i couldnt of put it better myself. Whether or not religion has the direct effect of starting a war it is well known that the whole theory of so many divisions within a so called religion is just illogical and does not make sense. This is the fundamental reson behind these differtences that can provoke anything from a social debate between a christian and a muslim, up to full blown killing in the name of their faith. I think that saying all major wars are because of religion maybe a bit far and probably not that black and white but indeed more people will die in the coming years from extreme differences in believes.

One thing i can assure you of is that no one is going to die for the sake a atheism, but plenty of people are about to die over the years as a result of religion ! Fact not opinion !

[The Mack]

Is war a religious belief, in your eyes then? people have been fighting for years! they always have and probably always will.
im sure religion is behind a few wars, but so is oil, money etc should these also be banned? Just wondering how you would ban someone for thinking a certain way?
The good it does for people?
it gives them hope in times of need
helps them deal with losing loved ones or the thought of dying themselves
for the majority it teaches them to love and not to steal and to live in peace.

[dawkins]

Guykp

Well, I think that its foolish to argue so strongly on a position when there is substantial evidence to the contrary.

without doubt religion is a significant contributor to many conflicts but so is ideology and economics. I have made the point in the past that Iraq has shades of a religiously motivated conflict but I don't think the coalition would have bothered invading if it wasn't for the strategic and economic importance of Iraq to world oil.

You could possibly defend an argument that it would be more difficult to conduct wars if religion was banned but you'd have to get passed Japan in W.W.II and stalinist Russia, the industrial-military complex of the US and UK and colonialism.

[Theland]

Dawkins - I have no moral authority. I submit to a moral authority.