Christmania

[luna-tic]

If the Christian faith (in all it's various guises) is the predominant religion across the planet then why do certain organisations deem it necessary to knock on people's doors to tell them about it or certain individuals like to off-load numerous passages from whatever book to whoever they come into contact with?...Like the uninitiated are suddenly going to exclaim,"Well I never thought of that !"

[mikeyp]

As far as I know it says in the bible to spread the word of God. Personally I'm cautious about this, since I'm convinced that talking about christianity to random strangers is more likely to put them off than convert them. However, some people do become christians this way, so I guess it can work.

[luna-tic]

Thanks "mikeyp". Talking about Christianity or any other subject in a slightly obsessive way to strangers does put people off, that's probably why most quickly close their doors on those who follow that particular path and the individuals who like to rant about their beliefs to all and sundry find that those who initially chose to listen make a quick exit.If the subject was introduced amongst new friends or work colleagues without it sounding desperate or pushy then it may have the required effect to make people want to listen.Trying to force an opinion about anything can be disrespectful of the listeners own wishes and beliefs.

[jake-the-peg]

Well the Church of England is in absolute crisis.
In 2002 the average curch attendance On Christmas day! was less than 6%

http://www.ccsr.ac.uk/christmas.html

Historically the church was able to spread the word with some pretty primitive techniques like knocking on doors but as we've become more sophisticated at resisting sales and marketing drives from industry this has become almost totally ineffective.

As the population ages church attendance has been dropping off even more so there's a bit of desperation in the air and initiatives like the alpha course came about.

Personally it looks like the desperate thrashing of a dying faith to me

[mikeyp]

The Alpha course is a good idea though, noone is forced to go to it unless they want to find out more. On the subject of church attendance, my church was full on Christmas day, with many visitors. There was no thrashing, desperate or otherwise. :)

[luna-tic]

Thanks Jake for the Attendance Table. Are people becoming more aware? Asking more questions about the validity of their religion or all religions and the following of paths that without the appearance of community become unsure about the strength of it's practice?

[wizard69]

mikeyp.. the alpha course is a brainwashing tool. I attended sone years ago and made it plain from the beggining that i had not only read the bible (all of it) but that I had studied it in some depth (I had an intense interest in all things religious/spiritual/philosophical at the time)I also made it plain that I would not accept anything told to me unless it could be backed up.Dont worry about it , i was told this is a course for learning.It was no such thing.The minute that I started to ask awkward questions I was made unwelcome.And when I said that I was looking into spiritualism at the same time (attending seances etc) I was asked not to attend anymore.There were plenty more newcomers there who just sat nodding their heads and accepting everything told to them because they didnt have the knowledge to ask probing questions.I felt for them.
And before anybody asks what I was doing there anyway, it was because a friend at the time wore me down with his demands that I attend with him.He thought he might be able to save my soul....

[luna-tic]

Mr. wizard69,
So apart from the "alpha course" having a flashy name, what exactly is it's approach for wanting to make people believe in it's doctrine?

[jake-the-peg]

Mikey, my local church was full too on Christmas day - they had over 100 people there.

They were awfully pleased.

The village has about 1500 people

Will the last Christian to leave the country please turn out the lights

[mikeyp]

Wizard. I am very sorry your experience with the Alpha Course was clearly unsatisfactory. My experiences have been better, and those of non religious people I know who have been. If you want to ask more difficult questions you can have my email, and I will try to answer. Bearing in mind I am no priest or experienced religions leader. I realise you are seriously sceptical about it, and will probably never believe anything I do, but that is not really important. What is important is that people at least try to answer the difficult questions.

Jake. I realise church attendance as a percentage is diminishing. This of course, is not a big deal. For instance, my housemate constantly says to me "there are now more atheists than christians." Great. But what exactly does this mean? We all know the "all those people can't be wrong" arguments are useless. Though you are probably not suggesting this argument, people do.

[wizard69]

luna-tic (what a name , lol)
from what I can gather its approach was to try and convince people that the bible is the infallible word of God and that we need jesus to save us...basic evangelical doctrine.
there was the usual "the bible is a collection of 66 books, written by over 40 authors, over 1500 years and yet contains NO contradictions" type stuff .(bunkum).
It was a farce.When I mentioned that I was looking into spiritualism not one person asked me if I actually believed it, they seemed to assume that I was under the influence of demonic forces. (At the time I was also interested in the psychology of deception, I was a great fan of harry houdini and his debunking of fraudulant mediums).
People seemed to have the idea that I WOULDNT believe in the bible (so I could go on sining or whatever) It didnt occur to them that I COULDNT believe because I had choosen to be informed instead of 'just believing' .

[jake-the-peg]

I'm not reading right or wrong but pointing out that in the UK church attendance is falling like a rock.

Yet most people claim to be Christian or have some sense of religous belief.

It's pretty clear that the Church is failing to give people what they want (whatever that is I don't know). If you don't give people what they're looking for they'll go elsewhere Islam? New Age spiritualism?

1989 there were 1.3 million CofE church goers
1998 there were 975 thousand.
2005 - 867 thousand.

A 31% drop in just 16 years

The church of England faces the very real prospect of becoming extinct in the UK

How long can that continue for?

[mikeyp]

I don't know. Oddly I read that attendance in some smaller christian groups is going up. I personally go to church when I can, but find myself very busy at weekends these days. I would like to go more often. Perhaps the changing opinions of people, that church isn't the be all and end all of being a christian, has made a difference too?

[jake-the-peg]

The few church groups seeing rises are mostly due to immigration.

But addressing the point about the church no longer being the centre - this is surely a great danger.

Without a central church community teaching and enforcing orthadoxy you'll get a thousand variations - what would have been called herasy years ago.

If one mans belief is as good and true as the next theses variations spread until it splits from within.

You are already seeing this with the issues of women priests and especially gay clergy threatening to split up anglicanism from within.

Still it's had a good run maybe it's time for Catharism to make a comeback!

[luna-tic]

Well...whatever our beliefs; I do hope that if there is some sort of cataclysmic happening on this planet in the future that we may be saved by a so-called God or cosmic ancestors but I get a feeling that there maybe some extra speedy converts to whatever religion is fashionable at that time and if our cosmic ancestors arrive in a mothership..I know who I'd rather believe in while the Earth disintegrates and I'm flying away hearing "All things bright and beautiful" waffling from the Churches below.
Be just my luck, these universal beings want to take my brain out and cook it in a fine Chianti.

[wizard69]

with some fava beans maybe?

[Lonnie]

The Christian Faith, and all its sects, is an Evangelican religion, which means spreading the word.

Islam also, if you take it literally, is evangelical, if your a 'non believer' in their faith, they ask you to convert, and if you don't, (just some of their sects), they kill you.

Judaism used to be evangelical, many moons ago, but as to many converts were coming in, and watering it down, they shut that part of the faith down, which is why, if a Gentile wants to convert, its extremely hard.

I have no problem with eg, Jehovas Witnesses, they are doing what they are supposed to do. I love talking to them, and expressing my views, and love it when they say 'I didn't know that', or 'I'll go away and check that'.