The Quick Trip To God

[luna-tic]

Reportedly for thousands of years certain South American Tribal Shaman or medicine people have used a specific mixture of plants that contain psychoactive ingredients to purportedly shift their consciousness into other realms, whereby they claim when under the influence to speak with their creators (gods or cosmic ancestors) so they may gain otherwise unobtainable knowledge.
Do you think this kind of practice has been used by other cultures;ancient Egyptian for example?
Could there be any truth in it?
Who gave them the knowledge of which
plants to use in the first place?
Or is it all codswallop?

[Fingerprint]

Luna-tic - I don't know if you saw my post a while ago about Zimbabwe. Not quite the same thing but we have what are called Nyangas, who are basically traditional doctors. They cure people with mixtures of herbs and by contacting spirits. It is definately something that works and helps to heal a lot of people who do not have access to westernised medication. Although it is strongly condemned by the Church and this causes a confilct for Zimbabweans between following traditional african culture and Christianity which came over with colonisation.

The danger is that many Nyangas use their powers for evil and it's an extremely dangerous business. In fact in South Africa, Zimbabwe and other parts of africa so much damaged is caused by the cultural practice of placing curses on enemys through Nyangas that there are huge police units set up who specialise in this type of crime.

[luna-tic]

Yes Fingerprint I do remember your post and I found it very interesting. Although I do think that the Nyangas malicious practices should be quelled, I understand that the unrest in such a country can only lead more to fuelling some of the people's angst toward one another.
On the otherside of the story there is the good that comes from helping those that are sick and if their herbal cures and incantations work, who are we to argue that all western treatments are better?
They are just more prolific in some countries.

[naomi24]

Hi Luna, This kind of practice has been used for thousands of years by all sorts of cultures all over the world, and I do think there is truth in it. Ancient peoples possessed enormous knowledge in all areas of life, most of which has been lost - or destroyed - over the centuries, but some, like this, has been retained. I believe it was given to them by 'the gods', but whether or not these people are using it in the way it was supposed to be used, is another matter. There are records of plants being used for all sorts of things - even for softening stone to use in the building of enormous structures, for example. Personally, I believe there may be a cure for all ills to be found in plants and nature.

I know the things Fingerprint talks about do happen, and I've known people to be absolutely terrified of these 'witch doctors', but I wonder if much of the success(?) relies upon the victim's superstition and fear?

I hope you don't mind me asking, Fingerprint, but I'm intrigued by the idea of huge police units specialising in this type of crime. How can police arrest the perpetrator without having a curse put on them? And that's not a question meant to undermine your comments - it's just something that immediately crossed my mind.

[luna-tic]

Thanks for your answer naomi. I do believe also that these ancient cultures held keys(not literally) to all kinds of skills that were once more abundant and there may be still some societies that continue to hold this knowledge.
I had been reading about shaman in Equador and peru that have been using "Ayahuasca",one of the drugs I referred to in my original question.
They said that upon using it they saw what they called their creators and the weird thing was they described them as man type creatures with bird or dog heads;Very similar in appearance to the Egyptian Gods.
Could this also have some relation to the so-called talking snake of Adam and Eve fame and the tree of knowledge?
I also think that fear may have a large part to do with the curses of the Nyangas but it may be fear that is justified within the belief of the proposed invocation/s.

[Fingerprint]

Naomi - They are called "occult-related crime unit" and they investigate anything to do with curses, demonic activity or black magic. They break up Churches that are practising black magic and arrest anyone caught placing curses onto others. As to how they arrest people without having curses placed upon them, I don't know really - I suppose they just grab the people and lock them up in places where they do not have access to the things they require to black magic.

It actually happens a lot in African Football with curses being placed on opposition players.

[naomi24]

Good question Luna. Perhaps the serpent was half-human half-beast. Who knows? It reminds me of Greek mythology with it's half-man, half-beast creatures, and as you've already mentioned, the gods of ancient Egypt. There are accounts in ancient writings of what we today could only describe as genetic engineering, some of which resulted in producing creatures that were half-man, half-beast.

I wonder why the Shaman described the beings they saw as their creators? Why would they think that - unless they already knew what their creators looked like - or is it all down to drug-induced hallucinations making them believe that?

Fingerprint, thanks for that. If the people there are so superstitious, I wonder if the police force have much trouble recruiting? That's a serious question - I can't imagine many who believe these things really happen would want the job.

[luna-tic]

naomi, From what I've read (not that I believe everything I read), the shaman used this concoction as a sort of drug-induced telephone to open a direct channel to their teachers/gods/galactic ancestors or whatever they called them.So they must of had in their origins,meetings with these beings from elsewhere prior to using the drug.
I've just been reading about the "Occult Related Crime Investigation Unit". A guy by the name of Kobus Jonker (that's a colourful title) was the superintendent and first person of this special unit to serve as an expert witness on evil spirits in a South Africa court.
Thanks Fingerprint. It just goes to show that we can learn something new everyday.

[naomi24]

Luna, that's exactly it. A sort of telephone line - with a video link - and if they hadn't met these beings before they wouldn't know who they were, would they. There's so much in this universe that we don't know about or understand, but I'm happy to continue to try.

Good bit of research you did there on Mr Jonker - and we do learn something new every day. Wouldn't you love to watch one of those court cases? I would.

[luna-tic]

Only from my T.V.
I sure wouldn't want to be on the jury.
Do they have a jury?

[Whickerman]

The central american natives used - and still use -peyote, an hallucinagenic cactus, for religious fervour. The druids used magic mushrooms. Catholics use incense. Shamans in the rain forests lick toads. Personally, I like a pint, but whatever you're having yourself....

[luna-tic]

I remember seeing a documentary on some Central American people going through a peyote ceremony and the English journalist accompanying them tried it aswell.
He said stones on the ground started to talk to him and small trees moved.
Powerful stuff.

[Theland]

l.s.d.