Heaven

[sherminator]

i am not into religion for so many reasons but the idea of heaven is probably up there as the stupidest for me. can anyone summarise from the bible what is heaven and why its so great?

[Octavius]

There are loads of references to Heaven in the Bible to consolidate, but generally Heaven is the destination place of the faithful. It is not physical but spiritual, being in the very presence of God. God is a spiritual being that is impossible for human eyes to see and Heaven, also is outside the boundaries and understanding of man as he lives in the physical universe. The only base analogy we can come up with is some floaty clouds with angels playing harps somewhere in the sky as �Heaven� referred to Heavenly or Celestial bodies (the dwelling place of God and His angels).

Originally Heaven was meant to be in the Garden of Eden, but when Man sinned against God, man was cast out of the garden. I suppose it�s a bit like the Egyptian Fields of Hotep, the Greeks Elysian Fields, or the House of Hades, Dis Pater or the old Norse, Valhalla (House of the Slain). Most ancient mythology believed that the afterlife was a continuation of the life on earth and after death you were �judged� and either sent to join and sit with the gods (Heaven) or to wander alone in the underworld (Hell). The Egyptians were a bit more optimistic and left maps to Sekhet Hotep in their Pharaohs tombs, so the dead could find their way once their heart was weighed and they were judged.

[The Sherman]

so where does it mention that its this wondeful place?

and why is everyone so keen to get there?

[Octavius]

Perhaps it is seen as wonderful, as opposed to hell/the underworld. Originally only brave or revered people could go there, often only with when dieing with sword in hand. That was the appeal, to sit with the brave warriors and ancestors at the table of heaven.

In respect of the Bible, I imagine that the concept of sitting with God in Heaven implies that that is as good as it gets.

I am not sure that people are that keen to get there, only that if they were going to go anywhere once departed from this life, Heaven might be a little more temperate than hell.

[The Sherman]

hmmm as an athiest it all sounds like a crock! and i think you have that opinion as well? how do you know so much about it though?? i just really cant see what all the fuss is about! it all seems so mundane and boring and well, silly!!!

[naomi24]

That's one thing I don't understand. Christians tell us of the wonderful world to come (if we embrace Christianity and repent our sins of course), but they're usually very reluctant to go there when their time comes. Wonder why? Maybe the reality is that they just live in hope, and their faith isn't as strong as they'd have us doubters believe.

[Octavius]

Hmm Naomi, I don�t think I have ever said that to you, and I make no bones in saying that I aint in any rush to �meet my maker�.

Sherman, Heaven/Hell or Elysian Fields/Underworld were of course ways to manipulate behaviour of people on earth. A warrior would need to be brave, courageous and vainglorious in battle in order to enter his �heaven� and if he died with his sword in his hand it would be a hero�s death and he would be hallowed in the halls with all the other brave ancestors. If not, he was doomed to the underworld as punishment for being weak-minded and feeble and dieing a shameful death. Often prisoners of war were executed with or without sword, depending upon how brave they were or how treacherous the opposition was at denying them a worthy death in the eyes of their gods. This system of course continued throughout most religious doctrine.

If you believe it is a crock of poopy-doop, that�s fine, but you asked the question (presume you are sherminator as well?). It may well seem a mundane ideology, but there are people who really believe that after we die we are judged on our actions in this world and are then sent by the celestial bodies one way or t�other. If you don�t believe that is what happens when you die, then that is fine too. Everyone has an unbelievable belief of some kind or another to someone else!

[sherminator]

yes i am both sherman and sherminator couldnt remember password on one computer but it is saved on another.

[sherminator]

also very true octavius? just wondering why you needed to point that out? all i ahve done is expressed my opinion on the subject. HERE is my outspoken opinion: you say that people just want to believe and yeah sometimes its easier just taking the easy option "science can show us the answer but we will have to spend years in study" to be replied with "nah cant be bothered!" and thats kinda what its like lets just take the easy option and its lucky for us that some humans won't settle for that because that is how we have made our greatest discoveries. If people actually sat down and thought about heaven i'm sure they'd see just how implausible it is-just how stupid the very notion sounds. Also Naomi you are right shouldn't they all celebrate when someone is near death as they will soon be in heaven?

[naomi24]

Shermin, precisely.

Octavius, this is a serious question and meant kindly. If, rather than going to church because it's sociable, or the thing to do, you honestly are a devout Christian and truly believe that heaven and your god await you, why aren't you eager to go to meet your maker? Do you really fear the unknown (which frankly would only be human)?