Trump/Ukraine, What Will He Do?
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warning complete athiest views here
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right now you know where i'm coming from don't say you aint warned. I personally think the belief in a maker/creator to be very very stupid. One thing that does interest me in faith's is the psychology of it all, in particular the sense of community and friendship within religious society and this is what i want to discuss.
people in a religious society come together and can be completely friendly and form relationships with each other based on their faith. I find it all very false mainly because the bible is so open to intrepretations and if you really want you can find something to support any view that you want to hold if you look hard enough in the bible.
So all these people at church all friendly with each other when really if they weren't of same faith they would probably dislike them for everything they believe in. isnt that falseness at the utmost? i hope that makes sense any comments welcome.
people in a religious society come together and can be completely friendly and form relationships with each other based on their faith. I find it all very false mainly because the bible is so open to intrepretations and if you really want you can find something to support any view that you want to hold if you look hard enough in the bible.
So all these people at church all friendly with each other when really if they weren't of same faith they would probably dislike them for everything they believe in. isnt that falseness at the utmost? i hope that makes sense any comments welcome.
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I completely agree. The bible (and I think any religious book of the same sort) is so open to interpretation that it can be bent and twisted to fit whatever you want it to fit. The whole outlook of some (not all - yes I am generalising here) "religious" people is one of "oh you believe in god too therefore you are like me, therefore I will be friends with you". In my mind friendship, community etc is, and should be, based on much more than belief in one thing only. Not all my friends are like me, we all belief in different things - I think if you're only friends with people who believe the same as you then it makes for a very boring life.
I have come across people who are all nice and friendly to me when they first meet me but as soon as conversation turns to god (sometimes months later) and they find out I am an atheist suddenly they don't want to know me. The fact that we may have got along well, had a laugh together, shared similar interests etc suddently becomes irrelevant, it's almost as if being in the company of an atheist is somehow going to infect them. And frankly I have no wish to be friends with people like that!
Sorry , went off at a bit of a tangent there, but basically yes I agree with you!
I have come across people who are all nice and friendly to me when they first meet me but as soon as conversation turns to god (sometimes months later) and they find out I am an atheist suddenly they don't want to know me. The fact that we may have got along well, had a laugh together, shared similar interests etc suddently becomes irrelevant, it's almost as if being in the company of an atheist is somehow going to infect them. And frankly I have no wish to be friends with people like that!
Sorry , went off at a bit of a tangent there, but basically yes I agree with you!
at where I work, there is a lady who is a devout christian, recently a new lad started on her department, he is a bit of a bore, very slow at his job and likes the sound of his own voice... anyway she was talking to me the other day about jugment, when she came out with this remarkable remark "when Jason first started I could not stand him, but then I found out he was a born againChristian....so I like him now, us Christians have to stick together, we're a bit short on the ground""
....I mean how terrible is that, she does not like his charatcer but because they share the same faith she decides he's her best mate.....
a very interesting post, I think you are right about this Sherman, there is a lot of "let's stick together within our own faith and not mix with those that do not share our beliefs" in most devout religions, I see this a lot , e.g. my neighbours are Jehova's Witnesses, every single tradesman that enteres their house is of the same religion....I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it does seem rather starnge in this day and age ....
....I mean how terrible is that, she does not like his charatcer but because they share the same faith she decides he's her best mate.....
a very interesting post, I think you are right about this Sherman, there is a lot of "let's stick together within our own faith and not mix with those that do not share our beliefs" in most devout religions, I see this a lot , e.g. my neighbours are Jehova's Witnesses, every single tradesman that enteres their house is of the same religion....I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it does seem rather starnge in this day and age ....
i think the most amazing/stupid thing i seen was at my g/f's uni was a poster for a jewish group, not a chess club or tennis club, a jewish club and i thought "are they just gonna get together and be jewish with each other?" even if i believed in god i just......... everything about it i find stupid!
i dont want to be someone that attacks people because of their beliefs (although if you think that homosexuality is wrong because of a 2000yr old fable then we're gonna have a problem!) but they just make it so easy to do!
i dont want to be someone that attacks people because of their beliefs (although if you think that homosexuality is wrong because of a 2000yr old fable then we're gonna have a problem!) but they just make it so easy to do!
The Sherman - You think that 'believers' to be very very stupid.
Fair enough, I'm sure you'll get a warm welcome on R & S for that sentiment.
Have you considered though, that just as there are a lot of very very bright people who are disbelievers, there are also some very very bright people who become, or remain believers?
(I wish I was as bright as them).
Conversely, consider stupidity, attached to belief / unbelief.
I'm not surprised that you are repulsed by your experiences of the clique mentality of those who call themselves believers, from what you say, it is enough to put anybody off.
But, have you ever investigated the claims of the religious texts for yourself, or are you simply putting your 'faith' into what you have been told by others, who by profession or reputation, command your trust.
God, if He exists, does not depend on your belief or unbelief to do so.
But if He does exist, really really does exist, and it's just that you haven't discovered him yet, well, that will not prevent you meeting up with Him one day will it?
Fair enough, I'm sure you'll get a warm welcome on R & S for that sentiment.
Have you considered though, that just as there are a lot of very very bright people who are disbelievers, there are also some very very bright people who become, or remain believers?
(I wish I was as bright as them).
Conversely, consider stupidity, attached to belief / unbelief.
I'm not surprised that you are repulsed by your experiences of the clique mentality of those who call themselves believers, from what you say, it is enough to put anybody off.
But, have you ever investigated the claims of the religious texts for yourself, or are you simply putting your 'faith' into what you have been told by others, who by profession or reputation, command your trust.
God, if He exists, does not depend on your belief or unbelief to do so.
But if He does exist, really really does exist, and it's just that you haven't discovered him yet, well, that will not prevent you meeting up with Him one day will it?
and this god is also very presumptious to asume that i want to meet up with him! I will be damn angry that if when i die im forced to 'sit in the clouds' with him. i believe that when i die i die and thats all i have to worry about, making sure that i have lived my life how i want to without causing to pain to other peole around me. i dont want to live forever i dont want to come back again. If someone has created in me and has a hand in how i have been dreated i'll be damn angry to think that i am not me, im just some stupid bored god's plaything
Hi Sherman, don't you think that it's just human nature for people who share the same deeply held beliefs or views to come together in any area of life? I'm sure animal rights activists are more likely to have friends who are also animal rights activists, than they are to have friends who are say bridge players.
There is room for interpretation but not that much room. If you go to a Catholic Church there may be some differences of opinion in some issues such as contrecpetion or abortion but they all basically believe the same thing.
And what's so wrong with having a Jewish club where Jewish people meet up? They may well play chess or tennis at the club? is it so wrong to want to meet people from similar backgrounds? Go to countries where there are large ex-pat communities and you will find loads of British clubs where Brits meet up.
There is room for interpretation but not that much room. If you go to a Catholic Church there may be some differences of opinion in some issues such as contrecpetion or abortion but they all basically believe the same thing.
And what's so wrong with having a Jewish club where Jewish people meet up? They may well play chess or tennis at the club? is it so wrong to want to meet people from similar backgrounds? Go to countries where there are large ex-pat communities and you will find loads of British clubs where Brits meet up.
you missed my point first off there is loads of room for interpretation as so many people have so many different views based on their own beliefs. therefor to join a club purely based on the fact that you believe in the same god i find astounding!
extreme example the bnp want to bring back daily christian assemblies so am assuming they are christian? yet hate people of other colour (they might try and spin that to say that they dont but be under no illusion they do!) so shall i join the bnp because they share christian views?
extreme example the bnp want to bring back daily christian assemblies so am assuming they are christian? yet hate people of other colour (they might try and spin that to say that they dont but be under no illusion they do!) so shall i join the bnp because they share christian views?
Sherman, I spent nine months out in Spain. They have loads of British clubs were big groups of British people meet to drink and socialise. Most of them have no interest in intergrating with the Spanish, they just join a club to spend time with people who have nothing in common with them but their nationality. Does this upset you as much as your Jewish example?
It has nothing to do with religion it's just human nature that we like people who we percieve to be like ourselves.
Sherman, of course people having differences of opinion in these perifial moral issues, they would not be human if they agreed about absolutely eveything. But within any Church people will agree on 99% of the core theology.
It has nothing to do with religion it's just human nature that we like people who we percieve to be like ourselves.
Sherman, of course people having differences of opinion in these perifial moral issues, they would not be human if they agreed about absolutely eveything. But within any Church people will agree on 99% of the core theology.
I think it is more to do with human nature than religion. My Church is probably the only place I know where you find people of different races, backgrounds and social classes integrating as equals. Surely joining people who would never mix otherwise is a good thing rather than a point for criticism.
I go to football matches with a group of friends, if we did not support the same team we probably would not have had the opportunity to built such strong friendships as we have, how does this make our friendships false?
My Church has an outreach centre that really helps those in need within the community regarless of their faith, I know the idea of a church doing something good is a controversial one around here but they really do.
I go to football matches with a group of friends, if we did not support the same team we probably would not have had the opportunity to built such strong friendships as we have, how does this make our friendships false?
My Church has an outreach centre that really helps those in need within the community regarless of their faith, I know the idea of a church doing something good is a controversial one around here but they really do.
thees also a big difference when your a foreigner in a country and the first problem is that there could language difficulties. Second abroad you would meet up to discuss britain in general with people who know and care about the country i think thats slightly different than trying to forge a relationship based purely on your belief structure
Sherman, I don't even belong to a religion but your posts are looking more and more like a desperate failed attempt to knock religion. What is really behind this?
If you won't accept the British club example, then what about the Irish Clubs that meet up in England. They speak English don't they. What about all the other thousands of clubs and societies in Britain where people have nothing in common but a shared interest or belief.
The BNP example is abit like saying, if a member of my stamp collecting club who collects stamps from the same era as me joins the BNP, then should I join the BNP.
If you won't accept the British club example, then what about the Irish Clubs that meet up in England. They speak English don't they. What about all the other thousands of clubs and societies in Britain where people have nothing in common but a shared interest or belief.
The BNP example is abit like saying, if a member of my stamp collecting club who collects stamps from the same era as me joins the BNP, then should I join the BNP.
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my bnp example was a way in showing how people can sit within a faith but have very different views from the 'perceived' majority. so if someone seen a poster saying 'join the bnp christian group' then you would join a group for like minded people and find some really nasty pieces of work. back to my original point of joining a group just because of a belief system is stupid.
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