Will She Be Staying In A Hotel With...
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One for the Atheists
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I've been meaning to ask this question for a long time - and since my husband is now watching the rugby he recorded earlier today (yawn), now seems to be a good time.
I don't believe in the biblical God (probably a well-known fact on R&S by now). However, when I visit churches anywhere in the world (strangely enough with the exception of St Peter's in Rome), I detect a certain air, a certain atmosphere, of something indefinably spiritual. To me, there seems to be a pervading sense of peace and tranquility in almost all churches - even ruined ones - but why? I've asked myself this many times, and have yet to come up with a logical, rational, or satisfactory answer. So .... my question to atheists is, do you experience the same, and if so, to what do you attribute it? And, despite your athiestic leanings, and your pre-disposition to damning anything even remotely connected to religion, a completely soul(?)-searchingly honest answer would be very much appreciated.
I don't believe in the biblical God (probably a well-known fact on R&S by now). However, when I visit churches anywhere in the world (strangely enough with the exception of St Peter's in Rome), I detect a certain air, a certain atmosphere, of something indefinably spiritual. To me, there seems to be a pervading sense of peace and tranquility in almost all churches - even ruined ones - but why? I've asked myself this many times, and have yet to come up with a logical, rational, or satisfactory answer. So .... my question to atheists is, do you experience the same, and if so, to what do you attribute it? And, despite your athiestic leanings, and your pre-disposition to damning anything even remotely connected to religion, a completely soul(?)-searchingly honest answer would be very much appreciated.
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Jake, but many mosques are huge, devoid of clutter, beautifully ornate, and quiet - but they don't have the same effect. Not even this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Ahmed_Mosq ue
Andrea, I'm sort of with you on that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Ahmed_Mosq ue
Andrea, I'm sort of with you on that.
Oh I disagree.
But I think a lot is down to a hushed air of reverence.
Go to St. Pauls and put in some lights and a rock concert and I'm sure you'll see that spiritual atmosphere vanish like the morning dew.
Spiritual atmospheres don't seem to be very robust.
Why do people observe such hushed reverence?
It's cultural - put a bunch of two year olds in a cathedral and they'll rapidly turn it into a playschool with shouting and playing - they don't feel your spirituality. They haven't yet been indoctrinated to expect to feel something
But I think a lot is down to a hushed air of reverence.
Go to St. Pauls and put in some lights and a rock concert and I'm sure you'll see that spiritual atmosphere vanish like the morning dew.
Spiritual atmospheres don't seem to be very robust.
Why do people observe such hushed reverence?
It's cultural - put a bunch of two year olds in a cathedral and they'll rapidly turn it into a playschool with shouting and playing - they don't feel your spirituality. They haven't yet been indoctrinated to expect to feel something
Jake, maybe I should have said they don't have the same effect on me.
I don't know why people observe that hushed reverence - and I must admit I do that in mosques and temples too. Perhaps it's simply breeding and having the good manners to respect what others respect.
As for two-year olds in places of worship, you're absolutely right. I vividly recall my two year old merrily and obliviously going head-over-heels time and time again at ancient St Sophia's in Istanbul. She wasn't impressed, obviously!!
I don't know why people observe that hushed reverence - and I must admit I do that in mosques and temples too. Perhaps it's simply breeding and having the good manners to respect what others respect.
As for two-year olds in places of worship, you're absolutely right. I vividly recall my two year old merrily and obliviously going head-over-heels time and time again at ancient St Sophia's in Istanbul. She wasn't impressed, obviously!!
Yes, naomi, I also love the atmosphere inside churches and, as you know, there is no more positive and proud atheist than me. I think the reasons have been well explained by others.
And you are quite right about the Vatican basilica. When my wife and I were there a year or so ago, I remarked that I felt none of that atmosphere at all. To my surprise my wife, a devout Christian, said the same - that the place left her spiritually cold.
For my part I decided that it was because the Vatican contained more nonsensical things per square inch than any other church or cathedral I had ever been in, including that daft statue of a Peter who never went near Rome let alone became its first bishop.
And you are quite right about the Vatican basilica. When my wife and I were there a year or so ago, I remarked that I felt none of that atmosphere at all. To my surprise my wife, a devout Christian, said the same - that the place left her spiritually cold.
For my part I decided that it was because the Vatican contained more nonsensical things per square inch than any other church or cathedral I had ever been in, including that daft statue of a Peter who never went near Rome let alone became its first bishop.
I know what you mean about the atmosphere, and for this reason I like looking around churches.
On a recent family outing we were in a village we'd not been to before and I suggested we had a look in the church, whereupon My 7 year old said 'I don't want to look in the church - it's just going to be full of bells and holiness'.
Out of the mouths of babes eh?
On a recent family outing we were in a village we'd not been to before and I suggested we had a look in the church, whereupon My 7 year old said 'I don't want to look in the church - it's just going to be full of bells and holiness'.
Out of the mouths of babes eh?
I have thought about this and although being 'open-minded' about spiritualism, I do not visit churches often and thinking about it, I do feel a sense of wonderment there. They are marvelous to look at and teeped in history.........
...however....
... I think I get the same feeling about places I have visited for the first time with no religious meaning such as caves and castles o'r historical places. I do wonder if it's just the atmosphere that i'm not used or my brain making sense of the new things I am seeing! Who can say!
...however....
... I think I get the same feeling about places I have visited for the first time with no religious meaning such as caves and castles o'r historical places. I do wonder if it's just the atmosphere that i'm not used or my brain making sense of the new things I am seeing! Who can say!
Chakka, speaking of the bishop (and no, there's not an actress waiting in the wings here), we stood watching the crowds filing in line slowly past that statue, kissing and stroking its foot, and I happened to remark quietly to my husband (who takes little interest in religion) that ,of course, he wasn't really the first Bishop of Rome. Oo-er! Shouldn't have done that. Glares suddenly bore into me from every direction - and if looks could kill .................. arrrrgh! Exit stage left!!
Hi,
I do know for a fact that all very very old churches were built on the sites of Pagan Ritual Sites to try to convert the Pagans to Christianity. Why the Pagans built them there, I am not sure. But being a nature loving religion, the Pagans obviously had their reasons, all connected to nature. Also all churches face East, meaning the congregation when sitting will be facing east, to catch the sunrise shining through the window above the altar (our school vicar told us this). I myself do not believe in the Christian God or any other God, but I do believe that the sun gives us life and the moon controls nature too. Also that Divinity is within us all! As for the feeling within a church, yes I do get a feeling of contentment, as long as the Vicar or Priest isn't around. It's the building, the age and why it is where it is, not what it stands for now.
Any help?
Any help?
I do know for a fact that all very very old churches were built on the sites of Pagan Ritual Sites to try to convert the Pagans to Christianity. Why the Pagans built them there, I am not sure. But being a nature loving religion, the Pagans obviously had their reasons, all connected to nature. Also all churches face East, meaning the congregation when sitting will be facing east, to catch the sunrise shining through the window above the altar (our school vicar told us this). I myself do not believe in the Christian God or any other God, but I do believe that the sun gives us life and the moon controls nature too. Also that Divinity is within us all! As for the feeling within a church, yes I do get a feeling of contentment, as long as the Vicar or Priest isn't around. It's the building, the age and why it is where it is, not what it stands for now.
Any help?
Any help?
An eight year old thread but why not?
Blackrosie said what I wanted to say, about superposition of Christian worship sites on pagan sites. The significance of the latter remains to be seen and we will have to rely on archaeologists to increase our understanding of how pagan settlements functioned, on a day-to-day basis.
When ancient Britain was still heavily forested, any small hill would be valued as a look-out and, after forest clearance, if it was too awkward for use as farmland then it could be used as a burial site, or a moot (meeting place). Sooner or later, someone will assign spiritual significance to it and it will still be the place of worship by the time Christianity arrives. Who knows? Other chains of events are just as likely as this conjecture.
One way or another, some settlements in Britain have been in continuous occupation for over 3000 years, so their places of worship are, indisputably, ancient. Why that should make a difference, I can't even guess.
Blackrosie said what I wanted to say, about superposition of Christian worship sites on pagan sites. The significance of the latter remains to be seen and we will have to rely on archaeologists to increase our understanding of how pagan settlements functioned, on a day-to-day basis.
When ancient Britain was still heavily forested, any small hill would be valued as a look-out and, after forest clearance, if it was too awkward for use as farmland then it could be used as a burial site, or a moot (meeting place). Sooner or later, someone will assign spiritual significance to it and it will still be the place of worship by the time Christianity arrives. Who knows? Other chains of events are just as likely as this conjecture.
One way or another, some settlements in Britain have been in continuous occupation for over 3000 years, so their places of worship are, indisputably, ancient. Why that should make a difference, I can't even guess.
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