Why do you believe in God?

[naomi24]

He doesn't seem to be much in evidence over the past two thousand years, so why?

[naomi24]

Yes, there are questions that demand more thought. However, if the answers to questions evade us, and if the existence of God is unproven, does it really make sense to assume that 'God must have done it'?

[WaldoMcFroog]

Which questions do you consider require more thought?

[WaldoMcFroog]

Theland, that link of yours is pure comedy gold. Just for fun, I've plopped it in a Word document and am adding comments where there's an obvious error. So far I've got outright lies, logical inconsistencies, out of context quotes and quote mining.

So far, pretty much every statement about evolution is factually incorrect. I'll post the major objections when I'm done, but suffice it to say that it's hillariously bad.

[ludwig]

I like Harry Hill's take on it which goes something like this..
When it comes to believing in god I think it's more sensible to be a believer. If it turns out he doesn't exist you've lost nothing, but if it turns out he does - you're quids in.

[WaldoMcFroog]

As Stephen Fry put it:

"Well. Pascal�s Wager is silly because, arch rationalist as he was, he is not giving a reason for belief in God, he is giving a reason for behaving as if God exists, a motive for believing in God, if you like. Which is all very well, but if God is all that he is cracked up to be he would see through such slippery self-interest and condemn you to those lakes of fire anyway. God is not asking, or certainly wasn�t in Pascal�s day, for man to follow an ethical code, no religion I know has ever suggested such a thing (although they might argue ethical codes follow upon religious obervance � but that�s a whole other can of worms for another day) God was asking for obedience, belief praise, thanks and observance. He has never offered in Christianity, Judaism or Islam, so far as I can tell, to reward those who merely punt on the side of his existence. For that reason, aside from its greasy moral turpitude, Pascal�s Wager sucks."

[jno]

well, I don't know, Waldo, the Bible seems to be full of statements like "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved". That seems clear enough: if you believe, God will save you. He is indeed rewarding those who punt on the side of his existence. So I'm not too sure what Fry is on about there.

[WaldoMcFroog]

He's on about Pascale's Wager:

"Endeavour then to convince yourself, not by increase of proofs of God, but by the abatement of your passions. You would like to attain faith, and do not know the way; you would like to cure yourself of unbelief, and ask the remedy for it. Learn of those who have been bound like you, and who now stake all their possessions. These are people who know the way which you would follow, and who are cured of an ill of which you would be cured. Follow the way by which they began; by acting as if they believed, bless yourself with holy water, have Masses said, and so on; by a simple and natural process this will make you believe, and will dull you�will quiet your proudly critical intellect...

Now, what harm will befall you in taking this side? You will be faithful, honest, humble, grateful, generous, a sincere friend, truthful. Certainly you will not have those poisonous pleasures, glory and luxury; but will you not have others? I will tell you that you will thereby gain in this life, and that, at each step you take on this road, you will see so great certainty of gain, so much nothingness in what you risk, that you will at last recognize that you have wagered for something certain and infinite, for which you have given nothing."

Seems pretty clear to me, jno; you can't prove God either way, but you might as well *act* as though he's real because if he is, you win. Fry is pointing out that God, if he did exist, would hardly fall for someone who was simply acting.

[Octavius]

But then if you don't believe in any God and are 'acting', how do you know which God to choose to act for?

[WaldoMcFroog]

Pascal's Wager explicitly addresses the Judeo-Christian God, but Octavius identifies another weakness of it.

In fact, according to Pascal's wager, one should work out the God with the worst punishment for non compliance and follow that one.

So, basically, it's a very poor argument.

[tranmerekid]

there is a god when terry went up to take a penalty in the euro cup final i said a little prayer. terry ended up on his ar$e,for penalty miss ask god for everything else use your mastercard

[Octavius]

Which one would that be then Waldo?

[naomi24]

Not a question for me, I know, but if I had to choose, I'd plump for Bacchus. ;o)

[WaldoMcFroog]

Don't know, don't care. It's a stupid reason for acting as though there were a God, innit?

[tigerlily11]

I believe God exisists.
I can't tell you why other than in every right thing in the world he is there.
He prompts people to do the right thing, to say the right thing.
He doesn't care wether u believe in him or not.
He's just asking u to do the right thing.
If we did I don't think this world would be in the mess it is.

[WaldoMcFroog]

"He doesn't care wether u believe in him or not. "

er.... then why do you go to hell if you don't...? ;-)

[Octavius]

Naomi, being of traditional Imperial Roman stock and a general in the senate, I would have to raise my eyebrow at that and stand firmly by the conservative approach of the Senatus consultum de Bacchanalibus.

Although with the licentious revelry it purports to indulge, I can see why you would be persuaded to take part in the �act�. But not without the prior permission of the urban praetor of course.

[tigerlily11]

I don't believe u do. There is no evidence other the the written word of men to say u do.
I beleve in him because I see it in the evidence of my fellow man every day.
I the kindness and help I have recieved from others.
Do you think some thing with unconditional love for his ceation to put you in a place so bad?
That is not the God I have come to know.
I have a bible but very rarely do I read it because it like other words from God have been distorted to fit human conviniance.
Like the rest of the human race I cannot prove or disprove it
I gave an answer to the question. I have given u my view on what was asked.
Why do you believe in God?

.

[WaldoMcFroog]

I don't.

[Octavius]

Why not?