Condoms and catholics

[tessaten]

I wondered how the catholic church can justify that it's wrong to use contraception/condoms, especially in areas where HIV and AIDS are prevalent?

[R1Geezer]

I was really saying that all religion is illogical self delusion and that in asking the original question the questioner is assuming that the catholics have arrived at their decision based on some form of reasoning and that is clearly not the case.

Yes I would love all religon to be sudenly gone but there is no realistic means of acheiving that so in reality there's bu66er all I can do about it so I'm not some sort of "fundamentalist", I just object when my not having a religion is somehow contrued as a religion in itself by people like yourself.

[Whickerman]

couple of things:

1 - for Ethel - there are catholic troops too, in fact there are possibly more in the world than non. Not sure where Mrs Overall is from.

2 - the Catholic church's beliefs mean no more than the Methodists, CofE, Buddhist, etc etc. I don't mean their on a par, i mean that they're only an issue if people choose to become a Catholic. No one is forced to do so, if you're born that way you can choose to leave (I'm living proof of that). Religious belief is only as important as you make it, and the Catholic beliefe structure is only an issue if people allow it to be.

That said, rightly or wrongly it is their belief, and their right to believe it is not open to question, even if i think it daft. Guess it's a case of 'if you don't like the rules, join a different club'.

[naomi24]

Taking my name in vain again Keyplus? Careful, your paranoia is showing.

To answer the question, clearly the Catholic church feel that it's justified, but as Whickerman says religious belief is only as important as you want to make it, so ultimately the choice is an individual one. Unfortunately in many areas where disease is prevalent, religious dogma is ingrained, and therefore ignorance, fear and superstition are also prevalent, resulting in an inability to make a personal choice.

[chakka35]

R1Geezer, experience tells me that you're wasting your time. I've always found it mildly comical that the worst insult that many religionists can offer atheists is that their atheism is a religion!

It is not, of course, as you say; any more than non-beliefs in astrology, magic carpets, the Easter Bunny, palmistry or Tarot cards can be called religions. Belief in such things involves the abandonment of reason and rationality, as does a belief in gods. Atheism is merely an insistence on retaining one's reason and ability to think straight.

Getting back to the original subject, we must remember that Roman Catholicism is one of the cruellest branches of Christianity, where dogma and doctrine are more important than human beings and their welfare. If a ban on contraception (with no scriptural basis) causes misery and hardship, then tough.

And if the idea is that intercourse without the possiblity of breeding is wrong then that puts paid to the sex life of men who have had the snip or who are naturally sterile and women who are naturally barren. As for those many women who have a thoroughly enjoyable sex life after the menopause, I can't imagine that they are impressed.

keyplus90, if Francis Bacon really said that then he must have been at the firewater. Not only I have yet to read a religious scientist who can reconcile the two hats that he has to wear, but I doubt whether you would call Richard Dawkins, for one, a man with 'a little knowledge of science'.

[Octavius]

Rather naive to take that post so literally chakka. My post was a pensive consideration on the use of �by definition� in the previous post.

Of course we all now that atheists are sole practitioners since there is no collective for it to be called anything near religion.

[evedawn]

there is somethign i the bible (and will lokk it up later) that mentions it being a "sin to spill (or "waste" ) mans seed." so i guess if it's just spilling into the end of a condom this would count as wasting?

PERHAPS that's where the biblical side comes from but...I'm not Catholic (and coming from Africa where HIV is pandemic I am TOTALLY FOR the use of condoms.

[naomi24]

This is informative:

http://www.bcys.net/askapriest/why-does-the-ch urch-ban-contraception.asp

Evedawn, perhaps the story of Onan is what you're referring to - outlined here (rather amusingly I think):

http://www.h2gb.org.uk/onan.html

[Octavius]

evedawn, perhaps this wil explain the position in relation to Onan, levirate law and the early Christian viewpoint.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2205/ what-exactly-was-the-sin-of-onan

[tessaten]

I didn't think that there would be a valid basis for catholicism's opposition to condoms. (Dreadfully sad for millions of people.) I looked at your link, Naomi: interesting that sex is seen as purely for procreation, when we have various erogonous zones that are obviously there so we experience pleasure! I was wondering whether to start another thread on sex and the various churches' beliefs on this: If our bodies were truly created by 'god', and are perfect, then why is genital mutilation acceptable? (This applies to male circumcision and female excision.)

[naomi24]

Tessa, I totally agree. Opposition to the use of condoms is not only incredibly sad for the poor, naive people who are afraid to do anything other than abide by the Church�s rules, it�s also incredibly irresponsible for an organisation that wields such a powerful influence over so many to continue to embrace such a cruel philosophy - and yet they do. Doesn�t exactly smack of Christian compassion, does it?

Why not start another thread with your new question, Tessa? Good question and good idea. It will make for interesting discussion.