ChatterBank1 min ago
If it was proved that God does not exist.
71 Answers
Question for debate,
If it was proven, without a shadow of doubt, that there is not, and never has been the almighty being that we call God, or a creator, people who did not believe, or those that weren't sure, would probably carry on with their lives as normal, but for the believers, worldwide. just what do you think their reaction would be?.
If it was proven, without a shadow of doubt, that there is not, and never has been the almighty being that we call God, or a creator, people who did not believe, or those that weren't sure, would probably carry on with their lives as normal, but for the believers, worldwide. just what do you think their reaction would be?.
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Naomi � I do not think Lonnie is looking for these sorts of answers. Sam Harris�s letters or views are his own views. And I can see that if he did read Quran, he did not do as a critic, he did with another objective. Quran not only says that people should go and gain knowledge, but Quran also says that the people of the book (Jews and Christians) have many things that are common between them and Islam and they should first of all believe in that. Lets say for example Trinity, we all know trinity is not any where in the bible and there is not a single unequivocal statement from Jesus himself. If they still want to believe in it then its there choice. Of course there are many other things that we have gone over so many times.
Lonnie � as for the question, I do not think God exists in that sense right now. Of course being Muslim I believe Quran is not only a book of religion but a complete code of life. No other religious book gives so comprehensive guideline about the whole life of a human still tell me one Muslims country that have complete Islamic laws. Clear reasons for that is, they are trying to follow secularism, imperialism, capitalism, and all the other isms for their own benefits. Where all these systems looked very nice initially but then gave world new kind of problems. So if the laws of god are not there that means God does not exist in people�s minds. Even credit crunch � is a problem given to this world by interest based system. The only problem is that all the consequences have already been told about.
cont:
Lonnie � as for the question, I do not think God exists in that sense right now. Of course being Muslim I believe Quran is not only a book of religion but a complete code of life. No other religious book gives so comprehensive guideline about the whole life of a human still tell me one Muslims country that have complete Islamic laws. Clear reasons for that is, they are trying to follow secularism, imperialism, capitalism, and all the other isms for their own benefits. Where all these systems looked very nice initially but then gave world new kind of problems. So if the laws of god are not there that means God does not exist in people�s minds. Even credit crunch � is a problem given to this world by interest based system. The only problem is that all the consequences have already been told about.
cont:
Good question has been asked that what do I believe in is good or not good. I would say only one simple thing.
Every thing is good as long as by doing it we should not have any bad affects on society. And anything is bad that we once thought was good but after a little time its consequences started demoralising the society.
Now I purposely used the word society as individuals can have their personal interests and benefits even in something which is bad for society, drug dealers for example. Now you look at the consequences and to find the truth just see who warned you about these beforehand.
Every thing is good as long as by doing it we should not have any bad affects on society. And anything is bad that we once thought was good but after a little time its consequences started demoralising the society.
Now I purposely used the word society as individuals can have their personal interests and benefits even in something which is bad for society, drug dealers for example. Now you look at the consequences and to find the truth just see who warned you about these beforehand.
Octavius, do us all a favour. Don't ruin yet another thread with your silly, nonsensical arguments. This is Lonnie's question, so let people answer it.
I am, and they are. This question is about God, and you have insinuated that God believers are thick and have committed intellectual suicide. I still remain mystified as to how you can demonstrate that a belief in a god is illogical and irrational and the premise of the thick, yet a belief in clock altering ghosts and ouija board spelling is logical, rational and demonstrative of your intellectual superiority.
Apart from again assuming your presumed position as class teacher, equating my point as �silly and nonsensical� just gives me the impression you wish to avoid discussing it because you have no answer. If that is so, then fine. But why not afford my beliefs the same courtesy and refrain from demeaning my intelligence?
I am, and they are. This question is about God, and you have insinuated that God believers are thick and have committed intellectual suicide. I still remain mystified as to how you can demonstrate that a belief in a god is illogical and irrational and the premise of the thick, yet a belief in clock altering ghosts and ouija board spelling is logical, rational and demonstrative of your intellectual superiority.
Apart from again assuming your presumed position as class teacher, equating my point as �silly and nonsensical� just gives me the impression you wish to avoid discussing it because you have no answer. If that is so, then fine. But why not afford my beliefs the same courtesy and refrain from demeaning my intelligence?
Keyplus, it's wise to check before you hand out free advice, you know. I had already answered Lonnie's question - which is more than you did in the first instance when you simply asked another question - and from reading your most recent post I'm still not sure you've answered it.
If you had read and understood the piece I posted from Sam Harris, you would realise that it isn't a critique of any book. It is a comparison of the way in which different people perceive belief - and his views ought to strike a chord with everyone who takes the trouble to think about what he's saying. It's plain common sense.
Octavius, yes this question is about God - not about ghosts and ouija boards, a subject you seem determined to drag across from another unrelated thread where your questions were answered - in some cases more than once. If those answers weren't to your liking, then frankly, it isn't my problem. If you are intent on ruining Lonnie's thread, then do it on your own.
Incidentally, I don't demean your intelligence, but you're not making a bad job of it.
If you had read and understood the piece I posted from Sam Harris, you would realise that it isn't a critique of any book. It is a comparison of the way in which different people perceive belief - and his views ought to strike a chord with everyone who takes the trouble to think about what he's saying. It's plain common sense.
Octavius, yes this question is about God - not about ghosts and ouija boards, a subject you seem determined to drag across from another unrelated thread where your questions were answered - in some cases more than once. If those answers weren't to your liking, then frankly, it isn't my problem. If you are intent on ruining Lonnie's thread, then do it on your own.
Incidentally, I don't demean your intelligence, but you're not making a bad job of it.
Yet again resorting to insults naomi. Such a shame. For the record, you have not answered the question and still avoid it by throwing lame accusations and terse but predictable phrases at me.
The Chinese have a saying that if a thousand people say something foolish, it is still foolish. That applies as much for your thoughts about religon as it does for mine about ghosts. Numbers aint proof.
Lonnie, my apologies for the "ruination" of your thread. Please forgive me.
The Chinese have a saying that if a thousand people say something foolish, it is still foolish. That applies as much for your thoughts about religon as it does for mine about ghosts. Numbers aint proof.
Lonnie, my apologies for the "ruination" of your thread. Please forgive me.
Lonnie, as I said belief is a spiritual support function. It helps people cope at difficult times. To attack their mentality and intelligence seems rather malignant.
Nonetheless, my experiences through the church and believing in God have lead me to opportunities and experiences I otherwise might not have had. I might have, but its doubtful. I won�t go into details, but had it not been for my involvement with the church I probably wouldn�t have found (or gone looking for) the doors that opened up my life and gave me a better understanding and appreciation of people, cultures and life itself.
I consider myself to be intellectual and have achieved much in my life, but it would suit the atheists among us to believe that I am belligerently thick. But they are wrong about me and I don�t really care even if it is rather offensive. If God did not exist, I would still be intelligent and affluent and still have the capacity to lead a moral, spiritual and erudite life in anything and everything I do for myself and for others.
Contrary to popular atheist hopes, I doubt religionists would commit mass suicide, they would probably have a painful and emotional dawning, but then look for another form of spirituality somewhere else. Something that gives them the hope and comfort they would desire, even it that is in an atheistic way.
Nonetheless, my experiences through the church and believing in God have lead me to opportunities and experiences I otherwise might not have had. I might have, but its doubtful. I won�t go into details, but had it not been for my involvement with the church I probably wouldn�t have found (or gone looking for) the doors that opened up my life and gave me a better understanding and appreciation of people, cultures and life itself.
I consider myself to be intellectual and have achieved much in my life, but it would suit the atheists among us to believe that I am belligerently thick. But they are wrong about me and I don�t really care even if it is rather offensive. If God did not exist, I would still be intelligent and affluent and still have the capacity to lead a moral, spiritual and erudite life in anything and everything I do for myself and for others.
Contrary to popular atheist hopes, I doubt religionists would commit mass suicide, they would probably have a painful and emotional dawning, but then look for another form of spirituality somewhere else. Something that gives them the hope and comfort they would desire, even it that is in an atheistic way.
Sherman, I welcome your questions and would not consider it an attack. I only hope I can answer them to your satisfaction. It isn�t just the religious. Many people feel they need a sense of transcendence and/or immanence. If they don�t find comfort from something without, they look for something within. Call it what you will (God, Buddhism, astrology, astronomy, intuition, gut instincts, hope and luck etc etc), but I think for the most part it is human nature and has been the foundation of many cultures, the reason being that they are trying to find reasons for many things that would still (presumably) remain unanswered, a search for exoteric and esoteric knowledge. A human need can be psychologically defined. Some might call it philosophy.
A person who believed in God, might find themselves following a form of Buddhism � seeking inner enlightenment, or may start to hug trees and dance naked in the forest under the light of the moon, or become spiritualists. Some might turn anarchic and exact revenge on the church, others might just accept the revelation and give up leading any spiritual existence whatsoever.
A person who believed in God, might find themselves following a form of Buddhism � seeking inner enlightenment, or may start to hug trees and dance naked in the forest under the light of the moon, or become spiritualists. Some might turn anarchic and exact revenge on the church, others might just accept the revelation and give up leading any spiritual existence whatsoever.
the reason you might think of it as an attack will become evident!
all those things you mentioned astrology etc.
I find....insulting i think thats the best word for it I just think they insult peoples intelligence (I picked astrology as I have more hatred towards that than some of the other things you mentioned) But i wonder now,
IF spirituality is alomst a part of the human psyche. I wonder what mine is- I wonder what my form of spirituality and indeed what most athiests spirituality is?
any thoughts?
all those things you mentioned astrology etc.
I find....insulting i think thats the best word for it I just think they insult peoples intelligence (I picked astrology as I have more hatred towards that than some of the other things you mentioned) But i wonder now,
IF spirituality is alomst a part of the human psyche. I wonder what mine is- I wonder what my form of spirituality and indeed what most athiests spirituality is?
any thoughts?
Ps, Sherman, I am not advocating that you should follow or agree with any of those belief principles or anything I have said. You may well think that it is all a load of wishy-washy mumbo jumbo b*llocks. It makes no odds to me. It was really in answer to the question about the non-existence of God and my speculation on how other people might follow alternative non-theistic beliefs/spiritual paths.
Octavius, Regarding your remarks to me Tue 27/01/09 09:41:
My apologies for taking so long but I thought it warranted a response.
Ignorance is not a �crime�, nor is it an excuse. We are not born with omniscience, let alone the knowledge of how to live. We are nonetheless responsible for the consequences of our actions. We therefore have an obligation to seek out and live according to the knowledge we can and should endeavor to acquire, that will enable us to meet our responsibilities. Having acquired the requisite knowledge to be independently responsible for our own lives and acting accordingly defines us as adults.
It is if when confronted with the evidence one chooses to ignore the facts in favour of no longer justifiable beliefs that one embarks down a dangerous dead end path leading to criminal behavior. To obscure or obfuscate reality and pander to another�s irrational beliefs is equally, if not more so, criminal, robbing them or their birthright to discover and experience a real joy in exchange for an empty promise of the unattainable and undeserved.
Ignorance might appear blissful to those who have taught themselves to feel nothing and who have never realised their capacity to experience real joy. Reality does not reward those who evade knowledge of it. Running from reality only makes one a victim of it, blind to the awareness that they are running headlong over an abyss.
My apologies for taking so long but I thought it warranted a response.
Ignorance is not a �crime�, nor is it an excuse. We are not born with omniscience, let alone the knowledge of how to live. We are nonetheless responsible for the consequences of our actions. We therefore have an obligation to seek out and live according to the knowledge we can and should endeavor to acquire, that will enable us to meet our responsibilities. Having acquired the requisite knowledge to be independently responsible for our own lives and acting accordingly defines us as adults.
It is if when confronted with the evidence one chooses to ignore the facts in favour of no longer justifiable beliefs that one embarks down a dangerous dead end path leading to criminal behavior. To obscure or obfuscate reality and pander to another�s irrational beliefs is equally, if not more so, criminal, robbing them or their birthright to discover and experience a real joy in exchange for an empty promise of the unattainable and undeserved.
Ignorance might appear blissful to those who have taught themselves to feel nothing and who have never realised their capacity to experience real joy. Reality does not reward those who evade knowledge of it. Running from reality only makes one a victim of it, blind to the awareness that they are running headlong over an abyss.
If my investigations into the nature of reality, the means by which we perceive it and the methods required to integrate it into a coherent whole, have provided me with the ability to understand that ghosts and ouiji boards are misrepresentations of reality, it is of little benefit to anyone if I simply assert that their beliefs are wrong.
Communication is the art of relaying information and ideas in a manner that bridges the intellectual divide between two (or more) parties. It is therefore an exchange of information so that the provider knows how best to relate to the receiver in a way that allows them to integrate the new knowledge to their own preexisting context. If your not speaking the same language no comprehension of grander concepts will be achieved.
What is more fundamentally important than whether one believes in ghosts or ouiji boards is why they believe in what they believe. It is the basis upon which one determines what they should or should not believe, why they should or should not and how to determine what should and should not be believed that is the focus of my endeavors here. It is the understanding of what knowledge is that forms the foundation for all understanding and understanding is my preeminent goal. Having gone through the process of learning what I know myself I realise what a formidable challenge I face. But among the most important things I�ve learned is that understanding is essential and essential to the process of acquiring and using knowledge beneficially . . . and that there are no shortcuts.
Communication is the art of relaying information and ideas in a manner that bridges the intellectual divide between two (or more) parties. It is therefore an exchange of information so that the provider knows how best to relate to the receiver in a way that allows them to integrate the new knowledge to their own preexisting context. If your not speaking the same language no comprehension of grander concepts will be achieved.
What is more fundamentally important than whether one believes in ghosts or ouiji boards is why they believe in what they believe. It is the basis upon which one determines what they should or should not believe, why they should or should not and how to determine what should and should not be believed that is the focus of my endeavors here. It is the understanding of what knowledge is that forms the foundation for all understanding and understanding is my preeminent goal. Having gone through the process of learning what I know myself I realise what a formidable challenge I face. But among the most important things I�ve learned is that understanding is essential and essential to the process of acquiring and using knowledge beneficially . . . and that there are no shortcuts.
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