Why pray?

[MWB]

Why pray? If it changes God's mind then he is not sovereign. If it does not change God's mind then it is superfluous.

[chakka35]

And when I ask a question and the answer is "God knows!" I say "Well, ask him then. He and I are not on speaking terms."

[Octavius]

Different people pray for different reasons. Of course some people do it in the hope that God can determine the outcome of a situation, some do it in thanks and praise and as a demonstration of faith.

Others do it for strength and guidance in accepting or overcoming difficulties in their life.

[keyplus90]

I believe that the most important reason for praying is that you accept that someone is superior than yourself so you should request him for assistance in a matter where you are unable to decide. As far as pre-decided factor is concerned then I don't think that every thing is pre-decided. Yes it is predicted. A mother can predict when her child would wake up for a feed, a weather man can predict about rain or sun. You can not say that it rained because it was pre-decided. Yes, as human they could be wrong in predicting as well as right.

When and if you would pray, when and if you would change your mind about something that you had never thought was possible, is predicted 100% accurately only by God as he is the creator.

[FarKenOath]

MWB, you seem to have no knowledge of faith whatsoever as your constant anti religious posts prove so let me enlighten you.
Prayer is not an tool to change Gods mind but rather a way of seeking strength to see one through a difficult time in ones life or guidance to which direction ones life should take.
Without strength or guidance you are likely to drift without direction, achieving nothing except a need to bring others down to your level by trying to impress with ignorant uneducated attacks on peoples faith.

[chakka35]

Hurray! This site is getting back on form again with a new preacher in FarKenOath. About time too. And his sermon following so closely on keyplus90's restores that loony religious flavour that we all love.

FKO, as one who manages not to 'drift without direction' without help from any supernatural creature I would find your last paragraph insulting if it wasn't so silly. And I think I speak for the 'ignorant and uneducated' MWB and many others here.

Still, keep it up. We have long needed a new injection of
religiosity to wonder at.

[FarKenOath]

chakka35, as you seem to be the spokesperson for not only the stunningly ignorant MWB but also "many others here" I feel the need to address your post.

Firstly I am not a preacher, just someone who felt a need to answer a stupid question with a realistic answer.

Secondly, if you consider people expressing their beliefs on this site as "loony religious flavour" then you are missing the point along with many others. Try not to mock what you fear.

Thirdly, I never said GOD was a "supernatural creature". That type of comment makes him sound like an alien and only perpetuates my belief that you are totally unarmed for intelligent debate on this subject.

Lastly it sadens me to hear that you find guidence and direction a silly notion, something to be derided. Maybe if you had ever attained any yourself you may not then feel the need to dismiss the idea as folly.

[MWB]

FarKenOath.

SIGH. How boring & disappointing.

I can't be bothered answering if all you're going to do is call my lack of having faith ignorant & stupid. You're obviously one of those christians who all people who lack faith just shake their heads at & walk away from. All your replies to questions about religion are combative & can't be qualified because all you're doing is ranting.

But I COULD call your lack of "non-faith" ignorant & stupid, as you obviously don't understand IT.

So for gods sake, & jesus h. christ on a bike, go back to your corner on the High St & preach at passers-by.

As for the rest of the posters...............
What about people who pray for instance - "Don't let my child/partner/parent/me die. Or "Help me win this race."
If the said child, etc lives, or they won the race - did god answer their prayer? Or if they die or they lost the race, did god ignore their prayer?

[Octavius]

The people who prayed would say that their prayers were answered or that God had other plans for them.

[MWB]

Well then, Octavius.

If their prayer is answered, then god is not sovereign. He has stopped being the ruler & making people live by HIS rules. He's allowing other to have some rule.

And if their prayer wasn't answered, then he is indeed superfluous as it didn't change gods mind. This "other plans" scenario is seriously crazy. I don't admit to understanding it at all. It appears that they'll now be drifting along waiting for whatever "plan" god has up his sleeve. What would that other plan be - they won't have to mow their lawn for a year as god has stopped it growing for that time to give them a break?

[Octavius]

If you say so.

[MWB]

Yes, Octavius, I said so. But I said so to try & elicit a sensible answer from you. lol.

[Octavius]

I think your active participation in the playground knobby/hawkes campaign would distract you from any sensible or intellectual debate.

[MWB]

Ok. I'll pray for you.

[ParkChoi]

all you prayerful people on here, can you step across to chatterbank and do some serious praying? folks on there are in dire need of prayers. they are possess by a demonic force that's incomprehensible. please hurry!!

[mibn2cweus]

. . . and don't come back! ;o)

[MWB]

Too late.

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!

Jesus hates me!

[FarKenOath]

I don't blame him. You sound like a thoroughly unlikable person, but I digress. I did call you ignorant but I did not call you stupid. There is a difference. You obviously do not lack intelligence but you seem far from being able to accept that you may actually be wrong. You call me "one of those Christians who people shake their heads at and walk away from" as if somewhere there is a special group of people who agitate you purely by the fact that they have a strong belief in something. Furthermore this group seems to be well known as you give the impression that most people label them similarly and feel the same way you do. There may be many people on this site that do but your assumption that you know who or what I am and what most others think is arrogant in the extreme. Is it my belief that upsets you so much or merely the fact that I do not agree with you. Your only belief seems to be a lack of belief in anything other than deriding someone elses. I would gladly debate this subject with you further if you seemed willing to be open to a frank discussion of someone elses ideals but I get the impression by the general thread of your many posts that you are not used to letting others have an opinion if it does not fall into line with your own. If on the other hand you ARE open to a debate on this subject then I am more that happy to reciprocate.

[chakka35]

FarKenOath, if you seriously want a debate on any subject pertaining to religion then you have to come down from the high horse of your pulpit and recognise calm intelligence when you see it. Then that calm intelligence will be happy to engage with you.

So let's start:

Of course you didn't claim that God is a supernatural creature; you don't have to; countless millions have done it before you.
God is a supernatural creature which does magical things and for whose existence there is not a shred of evidence.

Now just rebut those three claims if you will or can. Then we've got a starting point for a debate. But please, no sermons: we have heard them ad nauseam on this site.

[Octavius]

"But please, no sermons: we have heard them ad nauseam on this site."

Yes, from you mostly.

[FarKenOath]

Chakka35, you ramble on worse than most christians. Please state your three statements that you wish me to rebut clearly so I can answer them.
As for MWB, where are you in this debate. It seems you have NO opinion of your own other than riding knobby's coat tails. Please participate with something that YOU have actually thought of yourself.