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A question for Christians
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We know that the God of the Old Testament is a monster. To list his crimes against humanity would take up too much space here, but they include ordering the wholesale slaughter of tribes � men, women, children and animals � the wiping out of cities, the drowning of the whole population of the earth except for one privileged family, the approval of rape and the handing-over of women as sex objects � oh, read the OT for your self.
When Christians are faced with these atrocities they claim that the New Testament God is different - a gentle, caring, loving fellow.
But when and where did this transformation take place? When did Jesus ever say "Sorry about my old man's behaviour in the OT but he's reformed now. He's had counselling and is a totally different guy", or words to that effect?
He didn't. On the contrary, as a Jew he worshipped the unreformed unrepentant OT God as all Jews do. So what does that say about Jesus' taste and values?
How do you Christians settle your consciences in this respect?
When Christians are faced with these atrocities they claim that the New Testament God is different - a gentle, caring, loving fellow.
But when and where did this transformation take place? When did Jesus ever say "Sorry about my old man's behaviour in the OT but he's reformed now. He's had counselling and is a totally different guy", or words to that effect?
He didn't. On the contrary, as a Jew he worshipped the unreformed unrepentant OT God as all Jews do. So what does that say about Jesus' taste and values?
How do you Christians settle your consciences in this respect?
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I asked something similar, i'll be interested to see if you get any different answers.
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question762368. html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question762368. html
Jesus never did renounce the Old Testament. In fact he specifically exalted it as His Dad's work.
Like every other self-obsessed nutter (eg Abraham, Mohammed, Ghengis Kahn, Adolph Hitler, Jimmy Jones, David Koresh) he believed his every thought came from God Himself. It is the universal excuse for not having to justify one's beliefs and actions.
Few Christians have ever read the whole Bible and accept its doctrine without consideration. It gives them great pleasue because it means they need not turn on their brain. I would bet money that the brains of worshippers use less energy that thinking people.
The attrocities of the Hebrews would today be grounds for their trial for crimes against humanity. Their actions so closely resemble Hilter's that it is uncanny. Those who worship this miserable God are a blight on the concept of morality.
Worship itself is an evil form of witchcraft but this point is entirely lost on the Minions of Abraham.
Like every other self-obsessed nutter (eg Abraham, Mohammed, Ghengis Kahn, Adolph Hitler, Jimmy Jones, David Koresh) he believed his every thought came from God Himself. It is the universal excuse for not having to justify one's beliefs and actions.
Few Christians have ever read the whole Bible and accept its doctrine without consideration. It gives them great pleasue because it means they need not turn on their brain. I would bet money that the brains of worshippers use less energy that thinking people.
The attrocities of the Hebrews would today be grounds for their trial for crimes against humanity. Their actions so closely resemble Hilter's that it is uncanny. Those who worship this miserable God are a blight on the concept of morality.
Worship itself is an evil form of witchcraft but this point is entirely lost on the Minions of Abraham.
Sorry, Lonnie, I've been giving AB a miss for a while now because if its irritating slowness so I missed your previous posts. I have read the item now. Thanks.
beso, I agree. I have said before that if I met God in the street I would call the police and hope that he would be prosecuted for c.a.h. far exceeding those of our earthly monsters.
I'll still be interested to hear Christians on the subject. Helloooo...are you there?
beso, I agree. I have said before that if I met God in the street I would call the police and hope that he would be prosecuted for c.a.h. far exceeding those of our earthly monsters.
I'll still be interested to hear Christians on the subject. Helloooo...are you there?
They never answer these question because there is nowhere for them to go.
At best you get the standard line. We don't understand because it was in context of what people could comprehend at the time.
Hello.....? How was the genocide of at least 32 tribes ever good in any context? Oh, they were evil people who sacrificed children. All the women were prostitutes. That is why the Israelites put every man woman and child "to the sword".
One tribe was a walkover. The Israelites only sent in a thousand men who were frightfully outnumbered yet they completed the massacre in record time. Such was the glory of God. Clearly their victims were not accustomed to fighting such barbaric invaders.
The total victims must have numbered somewhere in the hundreds of thousands. Not outstanding in terms of later massacres but the big difference is that this is the only genocide in history still upheld as the glorious manifestation of a deity. At least the Neo-Nazis have the decency to deny the Holocaust.
At best you get the standard line. We don't understand because it was in context of what people could comprehend at the time.
Hello.....? How was the genocide of at least 32 tribes ever good in any context? Oh, they were evil people who sacrificed children. All the women were prostitutes. That is why the Israelites put every man woman and child "to the sword".
One tribe was a walkover. The Israelites only sent in a thousand men who were frightfully outnumbered yet they completed the massacre in record time. Such was the glory of God. Clearly their victims were not accustomed to fighting such barbaric invaders.
The total victims must have numbered somewhere in the hundreds of thousands. Not outstanding in terms of later massacres but the big difference is that this is the only genocide in history still upheld as the glorious manifestation of a deity. At least the Neo-Nazis have the decency to deny the Holocaust.
I'm no theologian but I have heard sermons in my church which refer to several incidents in the New Testament which imply that it is only when God was incarnated as human that he decided to save all of mankind rather than just the Jewish people. Have a look at Jesus's encounters with the woman of Samaria when he asks for water from the well and there is another incident with a woman whose child is sick. At first Jesus will not help her because she is not Jewish but then he changes his mind. And the parable of the prodigal son is about the decision to offer salvation to non-Jews but also to keep his promise to the Jewish people (the son who doesn't leave). It is difficult theology, thinking of God as the omnipotent father and also as the human but that for me is the attraction of Christianity.
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No problem chakka35, just pleased someone else was thinking along similar lines.
But to continue with your thread, a good acquaintence of mine, a devout Christian, is of the unshakeable belief, that only if you acknowledge Jesus as God, can you enter the Kingdom of heaven.
According to him, and I would hazard a guess, quite a lot of Christians, anyone who preceded him would not be allowed into Heaven, anyway, as I understand it, Jesus was of the line of David, so how could he have been divine.
But to continue with your thread, a good acquaintence of mine, a devout Christian, is of the unshakeable belief, that only if you acknowledge Jesus as God, can you enter the Kingdom of heaven.
According to him, and I would hazard a guess, quite a lot of Christians, anyone who preceded him would not be allowed into Heaven, anyway, as I understand it, Jesus was of the line of David, so how could he have been divine.
Hello Chakka .........as a Jew he worshipped the unreformed unrepentant OT God as all Jews do. So what does that say about Jesus' taste and values?
It says he was a Jew, with Jewish tastes and values. At some time after Jesus's demise, the PR team and the spin doctors got to work on both God's and Jesus's tastes and values and well and truly edited and airbrushed them to suit the new and up and coming designer styles.
I've asked Christians how they rationalise the sins of the alleged father. Some have justified it by saying it was done because the Jews were the chosen people, and consequently God was on their side; others appear to have some vague and misty notion of I don't quite know what in their minds; some have said we can't take it literally - it doesn't really mean what it says, so God didn't really do all those nasty, nasty things - and others seem to overlook it altogether and pretend it didn't happen. No one I've spoken to has ever been willing to accept the evidence for what it is, and consider it with a rational eye and from a 21st century viewpoint - and none of them has ever condemned God in the slightest way for his horrendous crimes against humanity.
Don't know if you know, but the new quiz has arrived. Looks good.
It says he was a Jew, with Jewish tastes and values. At some time after Jesus's demise, the PR team and the spin doctors got to work on both God's and Jesus's tastes and values and well and truly edited and airbrushed them to suit the new and up and coming designer styles.
I've asked Christians how they rationalise the sins of the alleged father. Some have justified it by saying it was done because the Jews were the chosen people, and consequently God was on their side; others appear to have some vague and misty notion of I don't quite know what in their minds; some have said we can't take it literally - it doesn't really mean what it says, so God didn't really do all those nasty, nasty things - and others seem to overlook it altogether and pretend it didn't happen. No one I've spoken to has ever been willing to accept the evidence for what it is, and consider it with a rational eye and from a 21st century viewpoint - and none of them has ever condemned God in the slightest way for his horrendous crimes against humanity.
Don't know if you know, but the new quiz has arrived. Looks good.
A good post, naomi. I wonder whether any Christian will actully give me a direct answer.
Yes, I've got the new quiz. And since it's about nasty people I looked for a question that needed a three-letter answer, which would, of course, be 'God'. But I suppose Marian and Neville are too tactful. Or, heaven forbid, they might even be religious!
Yes, I've got the new quiz. And since it's about nasty people I looked for a question that needed a three-letter answer, which would, of course, be 'God'. But I suppose Marian and Neville are too tactful. Or, heaven forbid, they might even be religious!
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Nice thread from an Anfield lad.
Seems to be a bit short of Christians to sacrifice though.
Needs a big fat juicy Christian to be tethered amidst the bloodthirsty atheists who are still not sated after having feasted on babies!
Ah well! I suppose I qualify, big, fat, juicy, and yes, Christian.
So go on then! Send me dog poo through the post!
Tell my neighbours I torture cats!
Bar me from the local!
Publish THOSE photographs on Youtube!
I don't care!
I'm performing a public service!
Bring it on!
(Rasberries all round!) (Or is it Rasberrys?)
Seems to be a bit short of Christians to sacrifice though.
Needs a big fat juicy Christian to be tethered amidst the bloodthirsty atheists who are still not sated after having feasted on babies!
Ah well! I suppose I qualify, big, fat, juicy, and yes, Christian.
So go on then! Send me dog poo through the post!
Tell my neighbours I torture cats!
Bar me from the local!
Publish THOSE photographs on Youtube!
I don't care!
I'm performing a public service!
Bring it on!
(Rasberries all round!) (Or is it Rasberrys?)
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