Morality.

[123everton]

Should morality play a part in the drafting of laws?
Or shoul all laws be written with regard only to principles of legality with no regard to morality?

[jake-the-peg]

I don't think they are mutually exclusive - infact some might argue that you can get a pretty good idea of what a particular society considers to be moral by looking at their laws.

Thing is whilst there is pretty general agreement on some areas of morality, there is wide spread disagreement in other areas.

Areas like sexual behaviour, recreational drugs, reckless behaviour for example are all areas where you will find widely different ideas on what is or is not morally acceptable

[Mr Veritas]

The trouble with letting morality into the drafting of laws is,that following that comes religion,bigotry and all that involves.
Who and what are to decide WHAT is moralty in the law.

[naomi24]

I agree with Jake and Mr V. Who defines morality?

[naomi24]

Oh, and before someone pops up and says 'God', I suggest they read the holy books to see if their idea of morality matches them.

[123everton]

I agree that morality is a subjective rather than an objective piece of reasoning.
So is it fair to espouse that for a legislature to be truly secular, it should pay no heed and brook no counsel with morality?

[naomi24]

I don't understand what you're getting at, Everton. Are you implying that a secularist ideology automatically embraces no moral standards?

[123everton]

I think we're all agreed that there is no such thing as a moral standard

[naomi24]

So what are you asking?

[123everton]

Does morality have a place in law?
To my mind, for something to be illegal there has to be a victim, but there are crimes on the statute that are victimless, why?

[naomi24]

I'm not really with you. Give me an example of a victimless crime.

[123everton]

For example, there are cartoons called Hentai which I think are illegal in Britain.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not a fan, but on what grounds should it banned, because of the way it's drawn?

[Old_Geezer]

Unsure I understand the question. Any legal principles should be based in morality anyway shouldn't they ? What is the point of law unless it is to define what is right and acceptable, and conversely what is wrong and not tolerated in society ?

As for no such thing as a moral standard, well of course there is. The standards are whatever is agreed to be the standards after society have debated the issues.

[naomi24]

I've never heard of those cartoons, but I googled and apparently they are pornographic.

[123everton]

Yes they are, I repeat I'm no fan, but the point is, is the content of these cartoons any worse than some films, not even porn films?
I believe in censorship, but it is an oddity that the law can proscribe on a rather strange artform.

[jackthehat]

Ok............it's an oldie but a goodie...............and should test theories of morality/legality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Spanner

[naomi24]

I've no idea. I've never heard of these cartoons until now, and I have no wish to watch porn films.

[123everton]

That's fine, it's not the point, take the film "Cape Fear" there are scenes in that which were edited out in Arab countries (only the sound remained) with the picture frozen, there are other films like "Hostel" which I believe is basically just torture porn, how can the live action stuff be legal and the cartoon not?
You could do a gay porn version of Popeye so long as it wasn't animated it'd be ok.

[naomi24]

Don't know Everton.

[123everton]

I remember that case from way back when, I was appaled at the ruling, their kinky back door shenanigans are certainly not my cup of tea, but again it emphasises the point.
What power should the law wield in the sexual activities of consenting adults?
Ultimately morality can only ever be brought to bear on matters of a sexual nature, perhaps the law is sexually repressed?
Although it shouldn't be what with all those wigs they wear in court.

[jackthehat]

There will be a very clever legal distinction made between the 'styles'...........

I don't know what it is.

Is this the particular example you wish to use to develop your moral/legal theme ?