The crucifiction

[claymore]

We know that Jesus was crucified, but did he physically die on the cross like the bible would have us believe?

[Ankou]

jake i didn't assume his legs were broken, just that this was apparently often done. and i agree that there isn't enough evidence to hypothesise with any great conviction, and its very likely parts of it were either completely false or embellished.

[naomi24]

jno, this was Almighty God for heaven's sake - and his followers weren't all lowly, illiterate fishermen. Some of them were rich and influential people. He was killed and rose from the dead, and allegedly a great many his friends bore witness to that. Do you honestly believe that if such were really the case, no one would have taken the trouble to record the slightest hint of it? Sorry, but for me that just doesn't wash.

[Ankou]

well you'd certainly think that the prolific roman writers of the time might have mentioned it. besides, if he really did start wandering around again, you'd have though tthe romans would have picked him up in their paddy wagon and killed him proper.

[Zabadak]

Naomi - you're not wrong there, though I think John of Revelation fame("the curious record of the visions of a drug addict” - Shaw) and John of the Gospel and letters are probably two different people. Apart from anything else, Gospel John could spell 8-)

[Zabadak]

Naomi, just in case of confusion, that was to your 14.31 comment! I said I was finding it hard to keep up 8-)

[keyplus90]

Some time I do wonder how much spare time few people have.

[naomi24]

Oops! Sorry about that Zabadak. Should have been more specific. Must be the effects of the magic mushrooms. ;o)

Keyplus, even though I don't believe Jesus died on the cross, I watched your video and there's no doubt your professor is very keen to quote the Koran in his efforts to discredit the bible. However, the 'proof' he claims to be able to demonstrate is complete and utter nonsense. No surprise there then.

By the way, he says he's met only one Arab Christian. Gosh, I've met more than that so I have to wonder where he's been all his life. Maybe he doesn't get out much, eh?

[keyplus90]

Yet once again I hope you had watched that with some intent. Hegave more quote from Bible than Quran and did say that if he had to quote only Quran then that would not be justice as Non-Muslims would not accept that.

Then about Christian Arab. Again he talked about a Christian Arab Priest and not just Christian Arab........ so perhaps have another go.

[Zabadak]

I met the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem once - does he count? Through a good friend, I also am in touch with several of the church leaders in Gaza. So that's quite a few, and I'm not trying

[naomi24]

Keyplus, the question was 'Was Jesus really crucified?' Your man claimed he could offer definite proof from the bible that he wasn't. He then attempted to employ doctrinal biblical texts that he clearly had no understanding of and that actually had no bearing on the question to support his silly claim. You might WANT to believe it, Keyplus, but if you look at it logically it's very clearly nonsense. If biblical texts existed that prove Jesus wasn't crucified, there would be no foundation for Christianity so don't you think people would have noticed by now? It certainly wouldn't take a second rate muslim 'professor' with an agenda to point it out.

As for the opponent I don't need another go. He was the only Christian Arab your professor had ever met.

Zabadak, are you a member of any particular church?

[Zabadak]

Hi Naomi: yes, but only because my Church is not very particular. Apart from anything else, it puts up with me 8-)

[Ankou]

nomai, you seem to be defending the bible here only because the person is a muslim, any other day i have seen you bleat about its trashiness. its not only muslim scholars who propose it never happened. the only 'definite proof' we have of what happened is the gospels them self, which are of course, questionable in many ways.

http://www.telegraph....oss-says-scholar.html

[naomi24]

Ankou, oh dear, you can't resist it can you - and it shows. I don't believe for one moment you've actually watched that video, but nevertheless you feel qualified to comment upon my assessment of it. However, that aside had you, Gandhi, Uncle Sam, Ned Kelly, Mohammed, or Pocahontas offered similarly ridiculous 'evidence', I would have said exactly the same simply because the 'evidence' is just that - ridiculous - so don't try to play a non-existent race card because it just won't wash. Furthermore, I have never condemned the bible for its 'trashiness' because I don't believe it is trashy. Must try harder Ankou.

[naomi24]

Zabadak, :o)

[sandyRoe]

I have a Mass said every Monday morning for all the agnostics, atheists, and doubters here in AB. And I offer up a prayer for you all, too.
It's not too late to repent your evil ways and be reconciled with our Saviour.

[Ankou]

whatever keeps you off the streets sandy! hows that essay coming along?

noami, and about the article i linked........?

[naomi24]

Sandy, bless you my son. ;o)

Ankou, this isn't new. All it amounts to is the idea that Jesus wasn't pinned to a cross, but to a pole.

[Ankou]

well the crux simplis, a furca or patibulum could have been used or any number of other types. but if the bible had not spoken of the nails and the spear, then it would be reasonable to guess at his survival rate. as it is stated, one would assume he copped it, and that is what the bible intends us to accept if you are using biblical accounts to substantiate anything.

anyhow, another topic bekons.

[naomi24]

Ankou, that makes for an interesting historical study, but it's completely irrelevant to this discussion. Like all Muslims, Keyplus' 'professor' is convinced the 'crucifixion' (or whatever you want to call it depending on the shape of the instrument you think most likely employed in the torture), didn't happen at all and he was using biblical texts out of context to attempt to 'prove' it to his audience. With the more gullible he clearly succeeded.

[jomifl]

Hi Sandy .. please don't waste your time praying for all us agnostics,atheists and doubters, we aren't really evil in the biblical sense. You would do better to expend your supernatural powers helping to save satanists and devil worshippers as they may be praying to their deity to save you, so you could end up in hell.