Atheists and the afterlife,

[claymore]

Guy I work with is a dyed in the wool atheist,hardcore. Having one of our many discussions on the subject he admitted to me that he believes in life after death.I told him he couldn`t have it both ways but he insists there is no conflict with his beliefs. Do any ABers feel the same way?

[katiecarol]

definately agnostic

[mibn2cweus]

"definately" How can you be so certain about what cannot be known?

[Ankou]

"Energy cannot be destroyed so when someone dies what happens to the energy that was once vital to their living body"

do you mean the energy that is stored and used/converted in our bodies via consumption of food and nutrients? or another type of energy? i suspect that once we die and stop eating, the remaining energy is converted either to food for plant and insects, released as a gass by putrefaction or the decaying body creates some type of biomass over a period of time.

[jake-the-peg]

The energy vital to a living body is chemical and electrical.

It dissipates, it radiates as heat.

This is the second law of thermodynamics.

Pour a kettle of hot water into a bath of cold water - that energy spreads out throughout the bath. You don't get a small portion of boiling water there for ever.

Anything needs a process that consumes energy to keep energy confined in an area and organised.

That's why plants need sunlight, why we need food.

[Ankou]

ah but from the kettle you can see steam rising. this therefore is the essence or soul of the water having an out of body experience.

[mibn2cweus]

While that theory might hold some water, I don't believe you have an airtight case.

[Ankou]

gawd, i feel like a right drip now. don't splash it about,

[mibn2cweus]

If its any consolation, that's one of the clearest examples of an OBE I’ve ever seen, tangible evidence you can actually see and feel.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, the 'HERE-after'. Now that is a very interesting word because it precisely contradicts its intended meaning - but in actual fact I think it's absolutely accurate. I wonder why the person who coined that term didn't call it the 'THERE-after' - and therein lies the difference between my suspicions and your belief. In my opinion there is no man in the sky who's going to hang the naughty people upside down, or give those highly commendable suicide bombers hoards of virgins to while away eternity with. We're going nowhere. We're just going to stick around.

[naomi24]

Jake, if we're going to consider that possibility of the 'soul' surviving death, in my opinion we really only have two basic choices as to what the process involves. Ethereal spirituality or 'down to earth' science - and personally I opt for the latter because the other one makes no sense at all to me.

So according to your theory the energy a body relies upon for life dissipates so it follows that it is not destroyed but survives but in a different form. And what about the energy 'generated' (and Chakka, before you smack my legs, I know that's technically inaccurate) by emotions? Anger, or passion - or devastating heartbreak, say - must all by their very nature produce enormous amounts of energy, so does that energy fall into the same bracket as the energy required to sustain life - or could that possibly be a different type of energy - perhaps something as yet unknown to us? (Actually that's a question that for obvious reasons you can't answer, but that you might nevertheless wish to consider).

[Ankou]

"what about the energy 'generated' ...... by emotions? Anger, or passion - or devastating heartbreak"

isn't that release of energy, or converting bodily energy to physical outbursts like tears and waving of arms/throwing cups and saucers. without the stored energy in our bodies we would have little to have these emotions with. again, as jake said its all chemical, with acids and ph levels. which is why pills and counselling can help. emotion is energy in motion, not energy in creation.

[KARL]

I have enjoyed looking in on this thread, lots of interesting thoughts and humour too. The notion exercises me a bit that around this question of afterlife, spirituality, etc. there may lie something undiscovered, but I really do not see any necessity for a god to be involved at all. Perhaps the closest orthodox or near-orthodox science comes to thinking along such lines is in that there is a theoretical/mathematical basis for parallel universes. If in another universe I somehow acquire hordes of virgins then I shall definitely do as Naomi foresees, I shall hoard them ;)

[naomi24]

oops. Lucky Plod's not about Karl. :o/

[chakka35]

naomi, i am truly surprised that you raise again this question of energy and where it goes after death. We discussed this ages ago and it has been explained again several times in the above posts. There really isn't a problem here.

And again, as I explained last time, if you claim that the soul is a form of energy then it must be measurable as all other energy is.

But the general question of a person rejecting one lot of untenable ideas while accepting another equally untenable set is interesting in itself. I'll start a separate thread on it and see where we get.

[naomi24]

Chakka, old chap, you really are a monkey you know. You're almost as bad with your bogus claims as the religious are with theirs - and I'll say the same to you as I say to them. Just because you want it to be so, it doesn't make it so. I've 'claimed' nothing and the explanations I've received, not all of which came from people with a scientific background, can only be guesses so in fact are not explanations at all. Furthermore although I answered Jake's question and asked for replies from people of science here, you will now note that since he cannot possibly provide an answer to my last suggestion, Jake is now conspicuous by his absence. Now stop being so damned supercilious, stop talking to me as though I were an imbecile, and have the courage to admit you don't know - because you don't. Lots of love. Naomi. Mwah! :o)

[jomifl]

If there is life after death then it ain't death, or life, unless it's worms.

[jomifl]

Of course atheism is a belief that there is no such thing as god, it doesn't preclude belief in fairies, dragons or an afterlife so there is nothing inconsistent in your friends beliefs.

[davelee]

Personally, I feel the idea of an afterlife a little conflicting coming from an atheist. But then again these are all belief systems. I have been thinking over this for a while and i just realized that I've never thought about an afterlife. I believe in God but not an orthodox and i feel somewhat weird myself that I don't believe in the afterlife. I find the views and observations presented by atheists quite thought provoking and interesting. Maybe I am just another confused soul. But the God debate is quite enlightening, i say. http://www.superscholar.org/the-god-debate/