Quizzes & Puzzles26 mins ago
So who is the holy ghost then?.
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On the Cross, Jesus said, 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do'. If God is the father, and Jesus and God are one, who was he talking to?.
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You get somebody to explain the Trinity to you, they'll say "Well God, he's God, and Jesus is God as well, and the Holy Spirit is...[mumbles indistinctly]". "What?" "He's the fecund spirit of the Lord who impregnates Mary, then gets a bit up himself and is reduced to light clerical duties?" (Courtesy of Bill Bailey)
Mike, your serious question deserves a serious answer... often times an explanation of the Trinity uses "water" as an anology... steam is water, ice is water and a lake is water... all differnet, but yet the same "essence"... personally, I like this one:
"About 20 years ago, Dr. Harold Willmington (Liberty University) shared an analogy he had heard with his students, comparing the Trinity to a book. For example, a book has length, width, and thickness. The length is not the book’s width, the width is not the book’s thickness. These three dimensions can be described separately, yet they are connected together. If you remove one dimension, you are no longer describing a book. In the same way, the Godhead has three separate members that are connected together, and if you try to remove one you no longer have the Godhead..."
We all try to relate to the Godhead in human terms, but that's entirely insufficient...
Naomi, alist of those present include the following:
1. Mary Magdalene (mentioned by Matthew, Mark, and John)
2. Mary the mother of James and Joses (mentioned by Matthew and Mark)
3. The mother of Zebedee's sons (mentioned by Matthew)
4. Salome (mentioned by Mark) -- Many scholars think that this is the same person as (3), the mother of Zebedee's sons
5. Mary the mother of Jesus (mentioned by John)
6. Mary the wife of Clophas (who was probably Joseph's brother) (mentioned by John)
7. An un-named sister of Jesus' mother (mentioned by John) -- Many scholars think that this is the same person as (6), i.e., the wife of Clophas
8. The un-named Beloved Disciple (mentioned by John) (Source: Gospel Mysteries eBook)
The "Beloved Disciple" was probably the one to whom Yeshua commends his mother, however he is not mentioned in the other synoptic Gospels.
Also, in my personal opi
"About 20 years ago, Dr. Harold Willmington (Liberty University) shared an analogy he had heard with his students, comparing the Trinity to a book. For example, a book has length, width, and thickness. The length is not the book’s width, the width is not the book’s thickness. These three dimensions can be described separately, yet they are connected together. If you remove one dimension, you are no longer describing a book. In the same way, the Godhead has three separate members that are connected together, and if you try to remove one you no longer have the Godhead..."
We all try to relate to the Godhead in human terms, but that's entirely insufficient...
Naomi, alist of those present include the following:
1. Mary Magdalene (mentioned by Matthew, Mark, and John)
2. Mary the mother of James and Joses (mentioned by Matthew and Mark)
3. The mother of Zebedee's sons (mentioned by Matthew)
4. Salome (mentioned by Mark) -- Many scholars think that this is the same person as (3), the mother of Zebedee's sons
5. Mary the mother of Jesus (mentioned by John)
6. Mary the wife of Clophas (who was probably Joseph's brother) (mentioned by John)
7. An un-named sister of Jesus' mother (mentioned by John) -- Many scholars think that this is the same person as (6), i.e., the wife of Clophas
8. The un-named Beloved Disciple (mentioned by John) (Source: Gospel Mysteries eBook)
The "Beloved Disciple" was probably the one to whom Yeshua commends his mother, however he is not mentioned in the other synoptic Gospels.
Also, in my personal opi
If I remember correctly the formulary (although High Church C of E who were generally more up to speed on Rome on these things) was, 'In the name of' (forehead) 'The Father' (breast), 'The Son' (left shoulder) and 'The Holy Ghost' (right shoulder), Amen (breast).
In the Russian Orthodox Church, after the reforms introduced by Patriarch Nikon in the 17C, the Son and the Holy Ghost changed shoulders. Those who maintained the old way, or continued to make the sign of the cross with two fingers rather than three were condemned as heretics and burned accordingly
In the Russian Orthodox Church, after the reforms introduced by Patriarch Nikon in the 17C, the Son and the Holy Ghost changed shoulders. Those who maintained the old way, or continued to make the sign of the cross with two fingers rather than three were condemned as heretics and burned accordingly
Mike //I was taught that the 'Beloved Disciple' or the 'One whom Jesus loved', mentioned by John, was John himself, not wishing to refer to himself by name. //
Did you ever ask the person who taught you that how he knew? Personally, I think it was far more likely to have been Mary Magdalene.
Clanad, no, I've tried that and I don't believe it works. We're told the women watched the crucifixion from a distance.
It's the same with the trials. There are no official records, and Jesus' supporters didn't witness them because they all ran away when he was arrested. It's all conjecture - it can only be conjecture.
But back to the question. If Jesus was what Christians claim him to be, then he can only have been talking to himself.
Did you ever ask the person who taught you that how he knew? Personally, I think it was far more likely to have been Mary Magdalene.
Clanad, no, I've tried that and I don't believe it works. We're told the women watched the crucifixion from a distance.
It's the same with the trials. There are no official records, and Jesus' supporters didn't witness them because they all ran away when he was arrested. It's all conjecture - it can only be conjecture.
But back to the question. If Jesus was what Christians claim him to be, then he can only have been talking to himself.
Clanad – Trinity was introduced into Christianity by ST Paul and we all know that. In fact word “Christianity” itself does not exist in Bible. As for your “most common” analogy of water, I would only say one thing that be it water, steam or ice its formulae stays H2O and does not change. Where If someone really believe in God as he should be believed in then there are so many differences between human and God. To start with God does not have sex and that is the reason Christian’s all favourite word “begotten” has been thrown out in the revised edition of bible.
-- answer removed --
I think there are reasonable conclusions at which one can arrive without stretching credulity, Naomi. We allow that in everyday life quite often, no?
If, as you correctly point out, the "women" were at a distance, it's reasonable to believe they came closer as the day wore on and as the Roman soldiers became less concerned about intervention from "friends" of Yeshua.
Secondly, at least Mary, the mother of Yeshua, had to be close by when He commited her to the care of "the disciple Jesus loved" and vice versa (John 19:26-27).
Additionally, at some time in the middle dark ages (I believe 1543AD, but I can't find my notes) the story persists that, under the direction of a chief rabbi, records referring to anything Christian were destroyed by the Jews. The reason behind such destruction (which would be extreme indeed, since the Jews were the world's greatest record keepers) was the treatment of the Jews that were expelled from England (1292) and Spain (1492). They were called "Christ Killers" and other foul names and, of course persecuted to death, in many cases. Some of the records mentioned as destroyed were Census records listing Joseph, Mary and Yeshua. Temple records recording that Y'shua had reached the age of making vows and the age of discrimination (generally 12 to 13) and told in Luke 2:41-42, also were rumored to exist but were destroyed.
Proof? Probably not, depending on one's world view and one's requirements for such. But evidence is another matter indeed at least in my opinion. If we are to be intellectually honest, we should apply the same standrds to a study of scripture as we do other similarly historical documents. (Don't get me started on Vercingoterix as an example)...
Hope your winter is going well... we have -15 degrees F and 2 feet of snow on the river bank today...
If, as you correctly point out, the "women" were at a distance, it's reasonable to believe they came closer as the day wore on and as the Roman soldiers became less concerned about intervention from "friends" of Yeshua.
Secondly, at least Mary, the mother of Yeshua, had to be close by when He commited her to the care of "the disciple Jesus loved" and vice versa (John 19:26-27).
Additionally, at some time in the middle dark ages (I believe 1543AD, but I can't find my notes) the story persists that, under the direction of a chief rabbi, records referring to anything Christian were destroyed by the Jews. The reason behind such destruction (which would be extreme indeed, since the Jews were the world's greatest record keepers) was the treatment of the Jews that were expelled from England (1292) and Spain (1492). They were called "Christ Killers" and other foul names and, of course persecuted to death, in many cases. Some of the records mentioned as destroyed were Census records listing Joseph, Mary and Yeshua. Temple records recording that Y'shua had reached the age of making vows and the age of discrimination (generally 12 to 13) and told in Luke 2:41-42, also were rumored to exist but were destroyed.
Proof? Probably not, depending on one's world view and one's requirements for such. But evidence is another matter indeed at least in my opinion. If we are to be intellectually honest, we should apply the same standrds to a study of scripture as we do other similarly historical documents. (Don't get me started on Vercingoterix as an example)...
Hope your winter is going well... we have -15 degrees F and 2 feet of snow on the river bank today...
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