Is It Fair To Allow An Athletic With High Natural Testosterone Levels To Compete, Even Though Athletics Are Banned From Taking Androgenic Steroids Supplements That Increase Testosterone Levels?

[willbewhatiwill]

Caster Semenya, 26, is a middle-distance runner and 2016 Olympic gold medallist. Caster Semenya testosterone levels is three times higher than is expected in women due to hyperandrogenism (increase testosterone). Due to a chromosomal abnormality, Caster has no womb or ovaries, but internal testes instead. IAAF will reconsider Caster Semenya eligibility to compete as a female at the end of the year.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2568578/who-is-caster-semenya-gender-row-runner-and-olympic-gold-medalist-heres-what-we-know/ reported, “After winning gold in the 2009 World Championships by beating her best by four seconds, Semenya was subjected to gender testing. She was banned from international competitions for almost a year before being cleared by the International Association of Athletics Federations. The IAAF believe that all other hyperandrogenic athletes should not compete unless they try to curb their naturally high testosterone levels. But it has faced legal challenges from female athletes who claim their high testosterone levels are “entirely natural” and that the IAAF rule was “discriminatory against women”.

[willbewhatiwill]

twix123: "For an example of a male athlete changing to a female, consider the case of Renee Richards, the tennis player"

I suppose the testosterone level of the player is lowered as a result of the sex change, this is not the case for Caster Semenya.

[johnk]

Should someone tall be baned from a sport were that's an advantage? Should a naturally skinny person be banned were it's an advantage etc etc. etc. Where is the line drawn?

[Old_Geezer]

Rules are rules, life isn't fair. In athletics we only allow same species to compete against each other, and as the genders tend to form two different groups we opt to split events to be single gender too. (Although in these days if pretending folk can change gender this may start to prove a false split in future.) If one wishes, one could suggest a handicapping system as used in horse racing. In which case my inherent laziness should allow me to start a yard from the finishing line while others have to drag a ten ton truck behind them. Or one can stop finding problems and let folk just race, as now.

[willbewhatiwill]

johnk; "Where is the line drawn?"

It is right that Paralympics takes into account disabled athletes abilities but sports with able-bodied athletes do not.

However male & female athletes often do not compete with each other, as it would be unfair. Caster Semenya is neither male or female but intersex. She/he is more male than female and yet compete with females. It will be fairer for Caster Semenya to compete with male athletes, given her/his high testosterone levels.

[albaqwerty]

I thought this an interesting read, part of it is disturbing which opens up another can of worms

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/fivering_circus/2016/08/should_caster_semenya_be_allowed_to_compete_against_women.html

[EDDIE51]

She has no womb or ovaries and has internal testes !
In my opinion she is far more male than female. 'She' should be reclassified as male .

[Peter Pedant]

sounz as tho she has testicular feminisation
an intersex disease - NOT transgender

o god far too high brow for AB

OK - second attempt .....

yeah dat fing - university challenge
yeah dey only allow bright boys on dat
an it aint fair !
what about sum real thickos like me ?

I could identify wiv it den - and watch and even understand it intermittently

[Peter Pedant]

normal day on AB then

// Caster Semenya is neither male or female but intersex. // WIWUW

and so the question setter knew what the 'answer' was before he set the question.... coffee time boys and girls......

[willbewhatiwill]

albaqwerty,

This is would be fair: Intersex athletes would have remove their male gonads, if they want to compete as females.

The link you referred to http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/fivering_circus/2016/08/should_caster_semenya_be_allowed_to_compete_against_women.html http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/fivering_circus/2016/08/should_caster_semenya_be_allowed_to_compete_against_women.html states, "According to the paper, all four agreed to have their testes surgically removed, followed by “feminizing vaginoplasty” and estrogen replacement. “Sports authorities then allowed them to continue competing in the female category,” the doctors wrote at the bottom of their results"

[ludwig]

Paralympic athletes have loads of different classifications they can get put into to try and ensure they're competing on a level playing field as it were.

For the 'normal' athletes, there's only two - male and female. Whichever one she goes into is decided by the relevant authority, and both she and the other competitors will have to accept that.

[Sqad]

If your chromosomes are 46XY you are male and enter male events.
If your chromosomes are 46XX then you are female and enter the female events.
If you have any abnormality of the sex chromosome then you cannot enter International athletics.

That would be my answer to a difficult question.
Hormone predomination shouldn't come into the issue.

I don't know the genotype of Castor Semenya.......does anyone ?

[willbewhatiwill]

Peter Pedant,
I am not asking is Caster Semenya intersex, male or female.

I am asking: Should intersex athletes (with high testosterone levels) should compete as females. It is a discussion about one's opinion, not merely the fact that Caster Semenya is intersex,

As regards your rant about University Challenge what are you trying to say??

[willbewhatiwill]

Sqad: "If your chromosomes are 46XY you are male and enter male events, 46XX then you are female and enter the female events".

Some sections of chromosomes (i.e. genes) can translocate on another chromosome, therefore the mere presence of XY chromosome does not necessarily make a person male or female. However testosterone levels is a good indication of being male or female.

[Sqad]

will.....your point is well taken and I agree with you conclusion, but that is not so in the classification of sqad for International athletics ;-)

[willbewhatiwill]

This is would be fair: Intersex athletes would have remove their male gonads, if they want to compete as females.

[fiction-factory]

There's a female runner called Wambui running now who to me looks male.

[willbewhatiwill]

fiction-factory: "There's a female runner called Wambui running now who to me looks male"

OK but have you examined her/him for presence or absence of certain sexual organs and testosterone levels??

[Berniecuddles2]

Fact or fiction you beat me to it definitely wouldn't look out of place in a man's 800

[willbewhatiwill]

Berniecuddles2, Fiction factory,

How about Serena Williams then?

[Berniecuddles2]

What about her?