knife crime

[luckyman]

just watching news this morning.brown gets tough on knife crime!the governent now wants answers.sending kids to have a peekaboo in prisons and setting up meetings with victims.bullsht!we should have national service,make our younger generation join the army after they leave school..the government is too soft in my view.i know i was in prison since 16yrs of age.getting arrested an average of 3 times a year since i was 10 yrs of age for burglary.burning schools down.etc..i was, i admit one little btsrd!uncontrollable.had all kinds of police liason officers coming to see me at home.i only told them to get out.more than half of my adult life spent in different prisons.anyway i have wised up and it took me a long time and i live by the law and have respect for the law now..only because i grew up and out of it..prison didnt change me..it only made me worse!! but since i left school i allways had a burning ambition to join the army..i tried only to be told that i couldnt because i allready had a record and all kinds of cautions since an early age..i really felt that the army would make a man out of me but they knocked me back...so i was once again on the road to ruin...the judge was going to give me a suspended sentence the first time i was in an adult crown court at 16 for gbh..i told my solicitor i wanted to o to jail i didnt want a suspended sentence,i wanted to be in jail and maybe i thought it would off done me good or maybe i just wanted to be a big lad and be with the gangsters...no matter it only made me worse..far worse!im totally ashamed of my past and find it hard deal with.i had issues with abuse etc.i dont know wot happened to me to be honest but after the phyciatrists.pycologists,jail,it was only my own maturity and growing up that i learned that it was wrong.anyway my answer to knife crime is put these kids into the army where the will learn respect and they will serve their country with honour ,where they wont leave school and wont sign on the dole.

[Ethel]

Why should the army have to deal with these feral, uncontrollable kids?

[funnygirl]

Well these kids want to kill and the Army seems like a good place for them to get it out of their system.

I had to laugh at the suggestion of all victims meeting their stabber. I am sure that is the last thing they'd want.

And listening to Alf Hitchcock the knife crime tsar, he reckons it will take a good ten years to put into place.
By then we may all be dead!!! Stabbed to death.

[code1]

Let's teach them combat skill's, after a short stint in an armed force they can join civvy street well equipped in the art of urban warfare...No thats not a good idea.

You knocked the nail on the head mate, you made mistakes, you paid the price, then you finally grew up...

Life offers the youth of today nothing, the UK is heading towards a recession, and crime rates are up...

My suggestion is more Police, more bobbies in body armour on the beat, more patrol cars, more helecopters, more of eveything, curfews for kids, and tougher sentences, lets build super borstals, get the army involved and start a fresh.

[jake-the-peg]

I'd always thought that this sort of "kids need national service" was a really dumb idea.

But more recently I've started to think that perhaps it's just what's needed to keep sqaddies out of trouble.

Perhaps if the military spent more time baby sitting young thugs they'd spend less time killing people and sexually abusing boys in obscure parts of the world thousands of miles away.

[jno]

it may be - seriously - that the best thing some of these kids could do is meet you, luckyman. If you could sit down and figure out exactly why you did what you did, and how and why you changed, you could do maybe do some good in the way they are handled. Actually, lots of young tearaways follow a similar path - they aren't tearaways any more by the time they turn 30, they settle down - but too many people (including many on AB) just assume they're going to be running around killing people until they get their pension. So I'd say: retrace your life, find out what changed you and why, and tell people on AB about it.

As for military service, I don't know, I suspect that'd just turn them from amateur knife boys into fit, trained killers. I can see it might 'channel' their aggression, but when there's no actual war on, military life may not involve all that much action. Soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq are more likely killed by roadside bombs than in shootouts.

[Octavius]

Well firstly I don�t think the army wants them � would you really be content to rely on some reluctant young thug hauled off the street to defend your life in battle? Also, why should they be inflicted upon people in hospital � already at their lowest ebb?

I would challenge the proposition that �life offers the youth of today nothing..�.

Whatever happened to making something of/for yourself? Why should it all be �on offer�? The only thing �offered� to my father was the chance to earn some money if he left home in his early teens, went overseas and scraped a living together doing the sh1ttiest jobs �on offer�. The only thing �offered� to my mother was that her mum and dad were able-bodied enough to go to war or make parachutes/weaponry for the army for fear that we would be overrun with Germans and Nazism.

What we can �offer� them, is a civilised and industrious opportunity to which all our ancestors have fought for and gained which is now prevalently available for those who desire it. It is a dog eat dog world, and those that can only survive and prosper by cheating or killing others, really don�t belong in such a free society.

[luckyman]

ethel wot a load of c r a p u talk sometimes!!!...why should the army not have to deal with young people like this? would u rather they leave school and draw the dole..its people like u in government who do not listen!! as for u jake the peg ive never heard so much bull sht!!! bet u vote for that wnker george galloway? go get a life u dkhead!!!! i tell u now if i had of been allowed into the army i know for a fact it would of sorted me out...i would of been towed into line..learn to respect people,,shown at an early age that i could be someone,,given some self worth,,given confidence in myself to carry out duties ,,had confidence in dealing with problems and people...do not tell me that i couldnt have got that in the army???? it was all i ever wanted and i know in my heart it would have been for me..and any kid who wants to run around in gangs etc then trail them off the streets into the army....as for the ab er who posted there are no wars on..have a look about you...wheres ur head?

[luckyman]

code 1...its exactly wot ive been saying...bigger borstals wont solve anything..they will only go to crime school and come out ten times worse off....these kids have no morals..they need to be given some kind of self worth early on...obviously the parents fault too...i just dont know...as i say pussy footing with police liason officers,pycologists,phyciatrists did nothing for me... i personally think that there are too many hoitty toitty people in government who grew up with a silver spoon ,had the public school upbringing and havent the first clue of wot goes on in the real world....

[voltr4m4x]

I agree with a great deal of what you say, but I would go one step further... I would like to see tougher prisons being built with a much tougher regime than at present, similar to those tough prisons in America, where no offender would wish to return for a second spell. Make them sleep on concrete beds, remove all privileges, and simply allow them basic needs for health and fitness. Even if it amounts to a short, sharp shock it would be worth it. Enough with "pussyfooting" - now is the time for action !

[Octavius]

In some parts of the world you would have been put to death or had something amputated for your teenage crimes luckyman. It appears you �wanted� to join the army, and assume that others would feel the same. You appear to indeed be a lucky man, and with all the opportunities presented via the honest tax paying public � police, psychologists, solicitors, liaison officers etc etc - but following your trail of victims and destruction you have fortunately experienced an epiphany, and good for you. But I wouldn�t presume that all adolescent teens would learn the same lessons by a quick-fix method. A moral and societal framework was available to you before you got into trouble, as it is for them now. Would you proffer any solution for preventing them entering into a life of crime before it happens, or just pose the threat of national service if they go wrong and stack up a body count?

The carrot or the stick?

[luckyman]

well said!! voltr4x4m prison should mean prison...just like in america..for god sake the prisonds i was in u beat a child molester u got hammered!! they even double these sex monsters up in same cell accomadation to let them do all kinds of filthy things to each other.and they used to get the cushiest jobs...life for a life too!!! bring back capital punishment!!! life sentences for all child abusers!!!!! now

[luckyman]

yes octavius..but a moral and societal framework is very obviously not working is it???? that is exactly wot i am saying....the situation will only get a whole lot worse..asbo.s are not working either are they?

[Octavius]

It works for me and mine.

I may consider that I am unique and special (in a good way) but hardly a minority.

[andy-hughes]

I have put forward my theory on the problems of society before, and will happily do so again -

instead of trying the proverbial plaster over the gaping wound scenario, and the nonsense that is showing victims to perpatratores, let's stop addressing the problem at the end, and start addressing it at the beginning.

Nursery education in this country is under-funded, ill-advised, and generally useless for its purpose.

If the government was to put its defence budget into nursery education, we could have professionally trained and paid motivated nursery staff who will teach toddlers a sense of self-worth, respect, and co-operation which will see them through to adulthood, and within a couple of generations, we can have people with appreopriate interaction skills to rebuild our shattered society.

What we have is young girls paid minimum wages sho fall into nursery care because they don;t know what else to do, and have a vague notion of liking children.

Start with little children, build them into caring feling adults, and the problems of violence will virtually disappear.

Will it happen?

What do you think?

[luckyman]

so octavius wot would u do?????????????

[jake-the-peg]

Sorry to disappoint Raggy I'm white middle class background about as far from minority as they come.

It's just that some of us consider the rights of others as important as the rights to the groups that we belong to.

As to Unproven cases - well this one's proven

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4290435.stm

This one plead guilty to beating a young Iraqui to death

And these are just the ones where there has been evidence and the families have been brave enough to come forward.

Now remind me

How many Iraqi's have been attacking the UK?

Or are all moslems the same in your book?

[luckyman]

wrong andy

[luckyman]

pss off jake

[Ethel]

At last I can talk without resorting to bad language and abuse.

The army is a professional, armed service, not a nanny for discipling naughty children.

It is hard enough instilling the right discipline and training in the young people that DO want to join the armed forces, without introducing a disruptive element that DO NOT want to be there.

After six months they'd be suing the army for bullying.

Boot camps may be an idea though - a rigorous, highly disciplined secure unit for thugs.