ChatterBank5 mins ago
Should The Uk Ditch The Ni Protocol?
From todays Telegraph, by Charles Moore:
"I am not sure people understand that the current, bad situation will soon get much worse. M&S and hundreds of businesses are wrestling with problems which exist before the Protocol “grace periods” end on September 30. Even without the whole Protocol, they are struggling with EU-wide post-Brexit stipulations whose pedantic enforcement makes certain types of trade well-nigh impossible – and is probably meant to.
To understand it better, I rang up Mr Norman. [chief of M&S] In his view, EU customs union rules date from a bygone era when the system was deliberately protectionist and the technology primitive. What might work for cargoes of a single, not highly perishable product (eg, shiploads of coffee) is hopeless for a modern, fast-moving, composite one.
Take the sandwich. It has numerous components. Even when expertly wrapped by M&S, 24 hours is half its life. Under the EU approach, each sandwich needs not only all its ingredients written on every manifest, but also three different veterinary certificates (there are in all 15 types of EU health certificate). Because the system is still paper, not digital, an error is not correctable in five minutes. If one thing in a wagon is wrong, you are not allowed to remove the offending object: you have to send back the entire wagon."
.................
Not only is there a lack of 'good will' from the EU they appear to be being actively hostile.
"I am not sure people understand that the current, bad situation will soon get much worse. M&S and hundreds of businesses are wrestling with problems which exist before the Protocol “grace periods” end on September 30. Even without the whole Protocol, they are struggling with EU-wide post-Brexit stipulations whose pedantic enforcement makes certain types of trade well-nigh impossible – and is probably meant to.
To understand it better, I rang up Mr Norman. [chief of M&S] In his view, EU customs union rules date from a bygone era when the system was deliberately protectionist and the technology primitive. What might work for cargoes of a single, not highly perishable product (eg, shiploads of coffee) is hopeless for a modern, fast-moving, composite one.
Take the sandwich. It has numerous components. Even when expertly wrapped by M&S, 24 hours is half its life. Under the EU approach, each sandwich needs not only all its ingredients written on every manifest, but also three different veterinary certificates (there are in all 15 types of EU health certificate). Because the system is still paper, not digital, an error is not correctable in five minutes. If one thing in a wagon is wrong, you are not allowed to remove the offending object: you have to send back the entire wagon."
.................
Not only is there a lack of 'good will' from the EU they appear to be being actively hostile.
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This was not a well thought out policy.
Even before we left Europe in the lead up NI was struggling getting goods.
We cannot order and plants or seeds as suppliers have stopped delivering to NI
The same with specialist pet food.
Even Amazon has cut back a huge amount of goods to NI.
But it was what was voted for by the masses and stuffed NI up well and good!
Even before we left Europe in the lead up NI was struggling getting goods.
We cannot order and plants or seeds as suppliers have stopped delivering to NI
The same with specialist pet food.
Even Amazon has cut back a huge amount of goods to NI.
But it was what was voted for by the masses and stuffed NI up well and good!
I was reading that the "cargo" is rejected, all of it, if the "wrong colour" ink is used. Whilst they play this game with N.I. they are busy tearing up agreements reached over Gibraltar and reneging on the legal obligations that they have. They love the Irish problem so much that they want another one. Tear up the fake agreement and tell em to do one.
Agree Togo.
In fact, tear up the whole deal and tell them to do one as they should have done in the first place.
//Sure i read somewhere that the Brexit deal was 'oven-ready':-/ //
Not quite it was referring to other deals the EU had made that could easily be adapted. But the EU didnt want that as they want to make it hard for us to go. (I dont actually blame them for doing that to a degree).
//How would it look to other nations we intend to do trade deals with if we ripped up a part of the deal we signed up to with the EU?//
Liz Truss is hammering away at that as we speak. True all are small but once added together they should help forge the future. Many of them are strategic around the World so we should be much better placed for World trade rather than limited to the EU and its deals with other countries.
In fact, tear up the whole deal and tell them to do one as they should have done in the first place.
//Sure i read somewhere that the Brexit deal was 'oven-ready':-/ //
Not quite it was referring to other deals the EU had made that could easily be adapted. But the EU didnt want that as they want to make it hard for us to go. (I dont actually blame them for doing that to a degree).
//How would it look to other nations we intend to do trade deals with if we ripped up a part of the deal we signed up to with the EU?//
Liz Truss is hammering away at that as we speak. True all are small but once added together they should help forge the future. Many of them are strategic around the World so we should be much better placed for World trade rather than limited to the EU and its deals with other countries.
//I doubt if Norway & Switzerland have to put up with this bull's excrement.//
No they don’t, ken. But that’s because both are participants in the EU’s Single Market – Norway courtesy of its membership of the European Economic Area and Switzerland by way of bilateral agreements with the EU. As such they must comply with all rules and regulations that the EU places upon goods that move from them into the EU. Interestingly Switzerland has recently abandoned talks with the EU aimed at replacing their bilateral agreements with an overarching treaty. These had been ongoing for many years but the Swiss finally realised that the EU’s demands in exchange for making such an agreement were too great:
https:/
The individual agreements will gradually expire (or be unilaterally ditched by the EU following them not getting their own way). Then Switzerland will have to decide how to proceed in the same way as the UK has following Brexit).
I don’t know how long it will be before enough people understand that the EU is not interested in realistic, pragmatic negotiation. You can either accede to all their demands or be cast out. The NI Protocol was one of the most outrageous agreements a UK government has ever put their name to. It jeopardises the integrity of the UK and arguably runs counter to the Good Friday Agreement. None of that matters to the EU. They immediately recognised the Irish border issue as being a major weapon with which to punish the UK. Our stupid government (mainly at the behest of that great statesman, one B. Johnson) confirmed the agreement and now we’re stuck with it. So a sizeable chunk of the UK population have their lives made extremely difficult in order to protect the EU’s precious “Single Market” (aka the European Protection Racket).
It needs to be sorted forthwith and if it means abandoning the Protocol then so be it. But since this government seems intent on leaving most problems untouched until they turn into major crises, I’ll not hold my breath. As with the "Pingdemic" (where major issues are about to erupt with supply chains) they will probably wait until NI citizens are all suffering malnutrition before forming a committee to address the matter. At least the EU will be able to ship goods to them via the Republic.
No they don’t, ken. But that’s because both are participants in the EU’s Single Market – Norway courtesy of its membership of the European Economic Area and Switzerland by way of bilateral agreements with the EU. As such they must comply with all rules and regulations that the EU places upon goods that move from them into the EU. Interestingly Switzerland has recently abandoned talks with the EU aimed at replacing their bilateral agreements with an overarching treaty. These had been ongoing for many years but the Swiss finally realised that the EU’s demands in exchange for making such an agreement were too great:
https:/
The individual agreements will gradually expire (or be unilaterally ditched by the EU following them not getting their own way). Then Switzerland will have to decide how to proceed in the same way as the UK has following Brexit).
I don’t know how long it will be before enough people understand that the EU is not interested in realistic, pragmatic negotiation. You can either accede to all their demands or be cast out. The NI Protocol was one of the most outrageous agreements a UK government has ever put their name to. It jeopardises the integrity of the UK and arguably runs counter to the Good Friday Agreement. None of that matters to the EU. They immediately recognised the Irish border issue as being a major weapon with which to punish the UK. Our stupid government (mainly at the behest of that great statesman, one B. Johnson) confirmed the agreement and now we’re stuck with it. So a sizeable chunk of the UK population have their lives made extremely difficult in order to protect the EU’s precious “Single Market” (aka the European Protection Racket).
It needs to be sorted forthwith and if it means abandoning the Protocol then so be it. But since this government seems intent on leaving most problems untouched until they turn into major crises, I’ll not hold my breath. As with the "Pingdemic" (where major issues are about to erupt with supply chains) they will probably wait until NI citizens are all suffering malnutrition before forming a committee to address the matter. At least the EU will be able to ship goods to them via the Republic.
//So any problems regarding NI ought to have been foreseen and dealt with?//
We most certainly did know they would play hard ball but you need to take yourself back to the time. There was a constant barrage from the remain camp after they lost trying to get a democratic vote overturned. The likes of Gina Miller, Oily Robbins and Treason May to name but three.
It had to be got over the line so I do completely understand why Johnson went with this, especially since clause 19 was included, effectively a get out.
Now we are out and we have given the EU chance to show they wish to trade friendly, which they have shown not to want we should invoke the clause and move forward.
//Why not impose the same ridiculous rules on goods coming to the UK from the EU?//
It's very tempting, but I dont think we should lower ourselves. Take the moral high ground it will look better to the rest of the World.
We most certainly did know they would play hard ball but you need to take yourself back to the time. There was a constant barrage from the remain camp after they lost trying to get a democratic vote overturned. The likes of Gina Miller, Oily Robbins and Treason May to name but three.
It had to be got over the line so I do completely understand why Johnson went with this, especially since clause 19 was included, effectively a get out.
Now we are out and we have given the EU chance to show they wish to trade friendly, which they have shown not to want we should invoke the clause and move forward.
//Why not impose the same ridiculous rules on goods coming to the UK from the EU?//
It's very tempting, but I dont think we should lower ourselves. Take the moral high ground it will look better to the rest of the World.
//Now we are out and we have given the EU chance to show they wish to trade friendly, which they have shown not to want we should invoke the clause and move forward.//
Quite agree, youngmaf.
I was extremely disappointed with the PM agreeing to a border in the Irish Sea. I wanted Brexit completed (properly) at virtually any cost but the cost to out friends in NI is extremely heavy. That said, any normal trading partner would not behave in the Byzantine manner which "our friends in Europe" have. Quite frankly their regulatory regime is ludicrous even when operated sensibly. When operated with vigour and vengeance it is simply beyond belief and I'm surprised any country chooses to do business with them.
There was an article in the press today which followed a consignment of M&S Chicken Tikka Masala from its processing factory in Wales, bound for Dublin. No longer can such hazardous foodstuffs travel from Holyhead to Dun Laoghaire. Instead they now have to pass through an "Export Centre" in Motherwell before taking a ferry from nearby Cairnryan to Larne. I won't describe the entire administrative process, just to say there are 720 pages of documentation to complete (most of which is on paper) and involves the services of five vets to certify the ingredients (including checking the Latin name of the animal from which the meat was taken). This is despite none of those ingredients having been anywhere near a living animal for many days. Anyway, cut to the chase. The lorry travelled over to Larne but the consignment was rejected because some of the printed pages (in two box files) had been signed in the same colour ink as the print. So the entire lorry load (including non-animal products) had to be returned to Cairnryan. The CTM was sorted from the rest of the longer lasting goods and sent to a M&S branch just outside Glasgow. It had left Wales at 16:00 on Monday and arrived in Glasgow at 17:00 on Thursday. Many of the packs remained unsold as they had a very short "Best Before" date and shoppers opted for those with a longer date.
Article 16 provides both the UK and the EU with a unilateral power to take action should the application of the Protocol give rise to ‘serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist, or to diversion of trade.’ Unfortunately it is very limited in the way it can be applied and even if used, is not proposed as a long term solution to general problems. My view is that the NI Protocol is clearly unfit for purpose (certainly in the way it is being applied) and should be ditched. That may demonstrate the UK cannot be trusted to abide by its Treaties. But it also shows that the UK will not suffer the absolute nonsense propounded by the EU and will hopefully encourage other nations to do likewise.
Quite agree, youngmaf.
I was extremely disappointed with the PM agreeing to a border in the Irish Sea. I wanted Brexit completed (properly) at virtually any cost but the cost to out friends in NI is extremely heavy. That said, any normal trading partner would not behave in the Byzantine manner which "our friends in Europe" have. Quite frankly their regulatory regime is ludicrous even when operated sensibly. When operated with vigour and vengeance it is simply beyond belief and I'm surprised any country chooses to do business with them.
There was an article in the press today which followed a consignment of M&S Chicken Tikka Masala from its processing factory in Wales, bound for Dublin. No longer can such hazardous foodstuffs travel from Holyhead to Dun Laoghaire. Instead they now have to pass through an "Export Centre" in Motherwell before taking a ferry from nearby Cairnryan to Larne. I won't describe the entire administrative process, just to say there are 720 pages of documentation to complete (most of which is on paper) and involves the services of five vets to certify the ingredients (including checking the Latin name of the animal from which the meat was taken). This is despite none of those ingredients having been anywhere near a living animal for many days. Anyway, cut to the chase. The lorry travelled over to Larne but the consignment was rejected because some of the printed pages (in two box files) had been signed in the same colour ink as the print. So the entire lorry load (including non-animal products) had to be returned to Cairnryan. The CTM was sorted from the rest of the longer lasting goods and sent to a M&S branch just outside Glasgow. It had left Wales at 16:00 on Monday and arrived in Glasgow at 17:00 on Thursday. Many of the packs remained unsold as they had a very short "Best Before" date and shoppers opted for those with a longer date.
Article 16 provides both the UK and the EU with a unilateral power to take action should the application of the Protocol give rise to ‘serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist, or to diversion of trade.’ Unfortunately it is very limited in the way it can be applied and even if used, is not proposed as a long term solution to general problems. My view is that the NI Protocol is clearly unfit for purpose (certainly in the way it is being applied) and should be ditched. That may demonstrate the UK cannot be trusted to abide by its Treaties. But it also shows that the UK will not suffer the absolute nonsense propounded by the EU and will hopefully encourage other nations to do likewise.
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