Fraud

[Emma_85]

I was looking for an extra job & listed my details on job sites to receive job details by email. I replied to 1 for a payments co-ordinator - forwarding cheque payments to a textiles company. The offer seemed legit & the salary was 10% commission. Upon replying i received an email saying i had been accepted & to await contact. I got more emails from other people telling me to expect my first payment & giving instructions to cash the cheque & forward 90% on to Ghana by Western Union. I received a cheque which i cashed at M & S's foreign exchange counter & forwarded 90% on to Ghana as instructed. I used my own ID to cash the cheque as i didn't suspect anything. A few days later, i received $5000 in traveller's cheques. I was a bit suspicious due to the amount, so i returned to the same place, knowing if there was a problem i would find out. I was told that the last cheque had been sent back as fraudulant. The police came & i was arrested & interviewed. I told them everything i knew and was fully co-operative. I said most of the communication was done by email and gave my email login details. My bank cards, mobile & pc were taken as evidence. I was bailed for 13 weeks to give time to catch the fraudsters. The officer said he knew i had been honest with them & "let's see if when get you off of this". I didn't know i had done anything wrong. I can't believe i was silly enough to not question anything. I guess with my money problems being as they are, that was all i was thinking of. I would never do something that i thought was illegal. I don't have a record. I only made about �60 out of it and i wrote a sincere letter of apology to M & S and offered to re-pay the full �720 they had lost even though i only saw �60. I'm totally disgusted with myself for being involved in something like this and even more so at the people behind this. Please can anyone tell me where i stand in terms of likely sentancing? Will i go to prison?

[tigwig]

I really don't know for sure if this is serious enough to go to prison for but I can't imagine it is. As you have no criminal record and the support of the Police I would think they are more interested in catching the real fraudsters in this not an innocent person who at worst in my opinion has been naive. Why don't you speak to the police about your worries and get an update on what is happening. Try not to worry, take care.

[MustafaTickl]

The only way for you to be absolutely certain of not going to prison is to join this as quickly as possible.

[Emma_85]

Thanks for your answer tigwig and thank you for not being severe - i expected a long list of people telling me that i was stupid and deserved to be punished!
I think what it comes down to is whether the police think that i had some idea that i was committing a crime, as they can clearly see that i was conned. If they believe that i was unaware that i was doing something illegal i would hope that this would go no further and i may get a caution or something. Does anyone have any idea what might happen if the police believe that i knew i was committing an offence (taking into account they know that i'm not involved in the bigger picture and was targeted by criminals)?

[MustafaTickl]

Give over, Emma, for goodnees sake. You knew quite well what you were doing. You were not conned, you quite happily conned M&S. How long you spend as a guest of Her Majesty depends upon the overall size of the gangsterism in which you were involved.

[Emma_85]

MustaTickl - if you think i would risk a criminal record or worse for a mere �60, then you are also stupid. The truth is that i have never had a reason not to trust somebody and so i didn't think that the cheques were fraudulant. I do feel very stupid when i look back on things but what i have described is the only part i played in the crime and the police have evidence to support this.
Anyway - i thought this site was designed with the aim of asking questions, not condemning people. Seeing as you presume to already know so much, why don't you actually answer my question regarding the possible sentancing if i am found guilty, rather then submit your own personal opinion. Thank you.

[Ethel]

Emma, my only advice to you is to keep copies of every bit of correspondence you have had with this company and make a list of facts so you can retrieve the relevant information easily.

Sadly this is a common and well - known scam and money laundering is a very serious offence.

I wish you well.

[MustafaTickl]

You are obviously eloquent and intelligent, Emma, and it is quite reasonable to suppose that you knew full well what you were doing for a fast buck. To believe otherwise would be the stupid thing. What the Court will sentence you to I cannot guess as it will depend upon the overall size of the fiddle you were involved in and your true role in it.

[Emma_85]

Thank you Ethel and In A Pickle for your support. I have kept every bit of correspondence in my email account, which the police and i both have access to. Hopefully those emails will proove my innocence, as they all support what i have told the police in interview.
I know that this experience has taught me a valuable lesson and i will never ever make the same mistake or allow myself to be in trouble with the law again. I just hope that i'm not penalised too much on this occasion. Even the thought of having a criminal record scares the hell out of me and may affect my career, let alone whatever sentance i may receive if charges are pressed against me. I have been to the CAB and the person i spoke to said that he was pretty sure i wouldn't receive a custodial sentance and not to worry. With his experience of the law, he seemed to think at worst i might be fined, but as i don't have any assets the courts wouldn't be able to demand very much. Any thoughts please?

[MustafaTickl]

Gosh, the nonsense that gets posted on this Answerbank !! We live in a capitalist society and the very foundation of our society demands good control, straight dealing, honesty and integrity from each individual in the handling of money. To introduce false money into our society strikes at the very heart of the way we live and if false money were to become out of control our society would collapse and life as we know it would cease. Passing false money is fundamentally the same as terrorism - out of control it will murder large numbers of us. This person had already passed off a fake instrument for �720 and was caught and arrested with false instruments totalling $5000. Large sums. What else he/she was involved in we do not know. Whilst the amounts in themselves would not be sufficient to destabilise our society the intention was there, perhaps similar to planting a small bomb. Whilst this may not be understood by some on Answerbank fortunately our Courts understand it and Emma will go down.

[Ethel]

Stop your scaremongering, Mustafa.

[MustafaTickl]

As I have said, discipline in the control of money is our capitalist society is what keeps us all alive. The deliberate pre-planned attempt by Emma to undermine us in the UK by entering �720 and $5000 of totally fake money into our society is somewhat akin to trying to behead us or plant a small bomb on us. That Emma should set about such an offensive enterprise for the benefit of gangsters in Ghana is outrageous. The Ghanaian's and their authorities are honourable people and for someone here to encourage and nourish unwanted gangsters in their midst is exceptionally offensive. Emma will justifiably go down and I am certain that both out police and our court will act together to ensure that it is for a long time. Emma is a very dirty pariah in our midst, and if she can also be kicked out of our country she should be.

[fredpuli47]

Stop fretting and do what the encouraging people have advised ! Ignore Mustafa (sorry, Musataf Tickl).On present showing , from what you say, I can't see how anyone would seriously consider running this as a prosecution, in the end. The CPS examine cases before deciding whether there is any good chance of a conviction. Only if they think that there is a markedly good case to present, with a good chance of conviction, will they recommend charges.They do take serious account of the opinion of the officer(s) in the case because the officers have seen you and will have formed an opinion, from what you said and how you said it and all the circumstances, whether or not you were assuredly acting dishonestly at the time or not . Someone sitting in a CPS office hasn't got that advantage. The case entirely depends on dishonesty. Being stupid or naive, whatever the circumstances, is not enough for guilt: it's not the same as 'dishonest' !

[MustafaTickl]

Total rubbish from you again, fred. The CPS will prosecute this without doubt. It is their duty to do so. Emma is an adult and clearly knew what she was doing. Stupid and naive adults do criminal things and rightly get punished for them. Your soppy postings on Answerbank are grossly wrong, not only are they misleading by being entirely incorrect but, worse, may encourage those who are bent like Emma to do something damaging to both our society and themselves.

[fredpuli47]

Mustafa, I've no idea what experience you have of prosecuting, defending, or advising in criminal cases. Some people on this site may be able to claim greater experience and knowledge of that and how the law works in practice, and the principles of law applicable.On what basis do you claim to be so experienced or knowledgeable? Indeed , how in this case would you set about proving dishonesty at all, let alone to the required standard for a conviction?
Now, kindly stop going over the top in alarming people by your opinions.

[MustafaTickl]

Don't be impertinent, you're getting way above yourself, fred. Emma admits guilt which is the only thing to her credit. But the matter is very serious, she has tried to pay back the �720 which adds further to the crime as it admits that before she swindled M&S she knew she was acting criminally - if she was an innocent victim of the Ghanaian gang she would not have done that. Then, in full knowledge of what she has done, she returns to swindle M&S yet again, but this time for $5000 which on her own admission if she was successful the gang would have paid her �250. The present Government are of necessity promoting Law and Order. We now have a Justice Minister, the CPS and the Police have targets to meet, billions are being spent on new prisons and prison ships are sailing in. Criminals such as Emma are now certain to spend a significant time behind bars and not before time. Anyone who has difficulty with that, including you fred, has very dubious morality and needs to take a good look at themselves. If you cannot support the obviously right actions of the Government and the general mood of this Island's population which is against criminality and activity such as Emma's then you should clear off somewhere else and take the Emma's of this Island with you.

[fredpuli47]

Emma, this is simply a question of honesty or dishonesty at the time you were active in this enterprise.It doesn't matter what you found out later. It's what you thought at the time you cashed the cheque, not what you found out afterwards, that matters. If you did not know that there was anything crooked going on when you helped these people in cashing money and sending it on to Ghana, not knowingly helping them in a crime, then you were not dishonest in law, and are not in law an accomplice (lawyers would say 'principal' , because lawyers like to be technical !) in the crime. .You might have been naive, not worldly, an innocent dupe,stupid even, but you're not a criminal or guilty merely because you did something which,did, in fact help someone who was committing a crime.Only if you did so knowing at the time and wishing to help the crook carry out the fraud are you guilty
.
The fact that you offered to pay something doesn't alter that. It's a honourable thing to do, when you've inadvertently or innocently but mistakenly caused a loss to someone. Of course,some cynics, ignorant of law and evidence, might say 'that's admitting guilt' but it's not.It's not evidence of guilt in itself because it is equivocal: it could equally have been made for a good motive That is it doesn't go to prove that you knew at the time you were cashing a cheque that you were causing loss to anyone. It's equally consistent with your only finding out afterwards that that was the case.

[MustafaTickl]

And if anybody believes the ridiculous soppy stuff that you have written, fredpuli, they would believe anything. Ignorance is not a defence. It is an utter shame upon you that as an adult you are so obviously morally bereft and in being so you may be seriously damaging someone who sincerely needs help at looking at the consequences of their actions straight in the face.