do you need planning permission for overflow accomodation?

[sheribee]

Hi all, hope someone can help! Our family are looking at buying a derelict house for refurb on 1 acre of land, the house itself is not big enough for all of us, as we are buying with my mother in law and her partner.
Do you need planning permission to site overflow accomodation?
We would like to site a small single story log cabin, 2 beds on the land with the house to allow for all of us to live there, as we plan to work the land to live self sufficiently.
I cant seem to find any info on this... i dont know whether its classed as overflow acconodation or not?
The log cabin will only be present so long as we still own the house and land, and wont be looking to sell it off with a small parcel of land. It is purely for our family.
Thanks so much for reading xxx

[weeal]

Your local council planning office will tell you that, I would imagine you'd need both planning permission and building warrant .

[weeal]

and a set of plans/drawings too

[sheribee]

Thanks, we have plans of the ones we like, and plan to visit the planning office next week, just really hope someone might be able to give us some info to go armed with xx

[bednobs]

you will absolutely need to talk tot he council -for example the land may be in a conservation area, or there might be specific development protocols banning the bilding of a new property. I would be wary - after all the land would be more valuable with planning permission so i wonder why whoever is selling it hasn't got it?

[bednobs]

you will absolutely need to talk tot he council -for example the land may be in a conservation area, or there might be specific development protocols banning the bilding of a new property. I would be wary - after all the land would be more valuable with planning permission so i wonder why whoever is selling it hasn't got it?

[bednobs]

you will absolutely need to talk tot he council -for example the land may be in a conservation area, or there might be specific development protocols banning the bilding of a new property. I would be wary - after all the land would be more valuable with planning permission so i wonder why whoever is selling it hasn't got it?

[buildersmate]

Yes is the short answer, as the other two replies above suggest. It matters not whether it is for 'family use' or 'overflow accommodation'.

The Development Control department for each local council produces a map for their area, showing various designations for all of the land within the area. Specifically, it partitions land into urban areas and countryside. Around the urban areas will be a 'Settlement Boundary' line drawn around. Inside the settlement boundary, land is designated as potentially suitable for residential or commercial development, outside the line the land is regarded as countryside. New development in the countryside is not normally permitted (i.e. it is against the policy - it is not impossible, but there has to be a very good argument).

There are exceptions to the above. It is normally acceptable for new development to occur if the accommodation is required for agricultural purposes. This is precisely how farmers and others in the countryside manage to get monstrous-looking barns constructed, or indeed accommodation for agricultural workers. Houses constructed for such workers have 'agricultural ties' placed upon them and can only be occupied by bona fida agricultural workers.

[buildersmate]

Because you have found a derelict house with an acre, I will guarantee that it will be classed as in countryside - it would have been snapped up by a builder or developer if it wasn't. You may get planning permission to extend it - the policy limit is typically 50% allowed increase in volume - though do ask as policies across the country vary. You may even be able to seek permission for your log cabin provided it is within a distance of the main dwelling (5 metres, I think, up to a certain size). But you would never be able to split the site and sell the two properties independently.
I would not be tempted to go down the 'agricultural development' route. Councils are wise to folks trying to get permission for new dwellings in the countryside for chicken farming, mushroom farming, catteries and other such activities. You would have to show a viable business plan that such an activity was viable and sustainable and one acre is not enough land to be self-sufficient.

[sheribee]

Hi thanks for all your answers! the land has a further 3 acres next to it to rent from the farmer who has agreed a price of �300 per year with us.
The house itself is in the countryside with no other housing around it, only the farm about half mile away.
We are going to visit the council next week so hopefully we will get more info then about it, the property has only been on market a week, and has had alot of interest.
I am hoping that we can get some form of planning agreement with an agreement that the cabin has no value to be sold on as it is purely for our use, if we move off the land or we want to sell the house then the cabin would have to be removed also.
Does anyone know if this is a viable proposition to take to the council? Many thanks once again x

[buildersmate]

The nearest planning situation that aligns to what you are asking for is an application for temporary permission. Such permission is often sought by a self-builder, say, who wishes to erect a (residential-style) caravan for a limited period of time whilst the (old) house is knocked down and rebuilt. Farmers also seek temporary permission smetimes for caravans for their workers to live in. Temporary planning consent will have a fixed period of time associated with it - often 2 years. On occasions it may be possible to reapply for an extension after 2 years.

The type of situation you describe (whereby you gain permission until you move away) doesn't exist, as far as I know. But there is no harm in asking.

[buildersmate]

A further thought. It is rare that consent for a temporary permission is extended for more than 4 years. There is good reason for this. After 4 years, an unlawful development (one built without the necessary Planning Consent) cannot be forced to be removed. To be on the safe side from any such retrospective claim for a Certificate of Lawful Development, local planning officials often avoid granting temporary permission for a period that would go past the 4 year point.
Here's another thought. You say there is already considerable interest. I'm not surprised - depending where it is in the country, even in these austere times, good plots in the countryside are like hen's teeth from individuals wanting to live in the country but know they cannot built new. The price that someone else will be willing to pay will depend on the their view of the redevelopment potential - if the old property really is unlikely to be economically retrievable (which basically means that either the walls or roof structure need lots of work) then the value of it is the value of the bare with its planning potential. Every planning authority will allow a one-for-one knockdown and replacement - and with a bigger replacement. back to my earlier comment about being able to rebuild bigger by typically 50% in volume. Have you considered that? It costs little to pull down / cart away a decrepid property - perhaps �5k.
If you indicate which local council area this is, I will look up the specific local policies that apply in countryside for you. I do not need to know exactly where it is and indeed I suggest you do not share that information on a public website. BM

[Mr Veritas]

Just to add to buildersmate's excellent (as always) answers:~
In our area (Rother,East Sussex) the Council will very rarely grant PP for "temporary" log cabins or even mobile homes on land.This is because if such constructions stand for more than 7 years they become "permanent" and PP is much easier to obtain.Our Council sees this as a "backdoor" way of building new property on the gardens or land of an exisiting (if derelict ) property
Please also check that your Council has not classed your "Derelict" property as "Abandoned" (there is a big difference).If they have classed it as "Abandoned" then you will probably never be able to build anything on the land (or restore the house) because it will have reverted to ,well ,just "land" Only the Council can tell you this.
I mention this because in our lane we have such a property,the remains of a house that has not been live in since about 1970,and is very derelict.Three times this property has been sold(in the last 6 years),and three times PP has been refused for a small house on the site.
However,people still buy it assuming they can get round the PP rules,and find they cannot.
I only say this to show just how difficult PP laws are.
BTW,please don't go by just a verbal assurance(on anything) from the Planning Officer,once it comes to the Planning Comittee things can become very different.

[Mr Veritas]

Apologies I think it is 4 years,as BM so rightly says!

[sheribee]

Hi x It was lived in up to 2 yrs ago, the reason it is in such bad condition is that people have broken in and taken anything they can, copper piping, doors, fireplace etc, the house itself, walls, roof etc are in good order.
I dont know whether it would be to risky to put it on the land as a outdoor building, as you would do a summerhouse and just tell the council we all live in the house.
the one we want conforms to what is classed as not needing planning to errect as it is less than 30sq metres.
That i know would be a bit dodgy.
The house is actually 2 houses knocked into 1, so an extension would allow both families to live there, which would probably be much easier to get planning for.
but costs are a problem as a log cabin would of course be the cheaper option.
We love this place and have been looking for nearly a year for something like this, it would be such a shame to miss out.
Does anyone have anythoughts on the costs of a 2 story extension? Obviously the costs would vary for different size, we would just need an extra 2 up 2 down rooms x
Thanks so much for everyones input, its so good to get different viexs x sheri x

[buildersmate]

Ok, we are now getting into quite specific areas.
In England & Wales ONLY, the rules about permitted development rights changed on 1st October. Permitted Development rights cover what you can do without applying for formal permission - in many cases things were made easier - but bear in mind that it will have impact on the way OTHERS you are in competition with assess the ptoject (and hence have a bearing on what they will bid).
Look here if you are talking England & Wales.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpu b/en/1115315233153.html
Next establish quickly if this location is within an AONB or any of the other 'special' landscape categories - the planning rules are still quite tight in these areas (to stop what others see as despoiling best quality countryside).

You can look at other categories of project on this Government Planning Portal website - I have picked summerhouse out as your project. If you read the 'rules' you may find you have quite a bit of freedom.

I do not know what your comment about 30 square metres means. I think you are confusing Building Regulations and Planning Consent. BRs does not necesarily apply to structures of less than 30 square metres in floor area - conservatories are a good example. But if you are putting a decent structure up (whether less than 30 sqm or not) one wants BRs applied (insulation, ventilation, moisture resistance etc).

[sheribee]

buildersmate thanku so much for your excellent advice!!!