Trayvon Martin Killing: Change Of Attitude?

[Philtaz]

This story is changing from a 'white security guard shoots black kid over skin colour' cause celebre to one of self defence whilst being attacked.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...ld-us-canada-18111988

When the story broke there were plenty (in the US) who jumped on the racist crime bandwagon, inlcuding one Senator who took it beyond his remit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/17542979

A supposedly model pupil has been found to have been suspended from school for cannabis possession and his autopsy provided evidence of it in his system. Witness statements and pictorial evidence have borne out the claims of Zimmerman that he was indeed subject to an assault.

But how many had Zimmerman tried and sentenced within days of the story breaking?

[Philtaz]

Second link: Congressman not Senator, for the pedants!

[Mattk]

His injuries do not point to innocence for me. They merely show that the deceased fought with him maybe even post gunshot.

He had cannabis in his system but I don't see how this is relevant other than to discredit him.

[Davethedog]

Did the kid do wrong? Well he was in a gated community, so chances are if he hadn't he was going to, Should he die for it?

He smoked weed, so. Even if he had a big doobie on at the time Should he die for it?

He assaulted the guy who killed him, why wasn't this said earlier?

Zimmerman outweighed Martin by nearly 2 stone though he was much shorter.

The people who had Zimmerman guilty should not now make the same mistake about his innocence.

[ummmm]

I don't see what the relevance to cannabis is..

Zimmerman called the police 7 times.

To me it looks like Zimmerman confronted the young lad, the lad fought back and got shot.

[Philtaz]

He had cannabis in his system but I don't see how this is relevant other than to discredit him.
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Exactly. A trial of this significance in the US would be similar to a propaganda war, all about painting a good/bad picture etc.
Initially this incident was portrayed as a white(he's actually multi-racial Hispanic) trigger happy guard approaching a black kid in a hoodie, acting suspiciously in a gated community, didn't like what he saw and after an exchange of words shot him.
Martin was lauded as a star pupil etc. It now transpires that wasn't exactly the case, which I'm sure the defence will make clear to the jury.

Witness reports now suggest that Martin was in fact on top of Zimmerman, seen to be raining blows to his face.

Either way, a very different scenario is emerging in contrast to the one initially portrayed by the media.

[Philtaz]

Forgot to include this, from the link:

The report includes a number of witness statements, including one from a resident who said she saw two men chasing each other, followed by a fistfight. Then she heard a gunshot.

Another resident told police he saw "the black male mounted on the white or Hispanic male and throwing punches 'MMA (mixed martial arts) style'".

The resident said he shouted to the struggling pair that he was going to call the police, before he heard the "pop" of a gunshot.

Another resident is quoted by police as saying: "I opened door and saw a guy on the ground getting hit by another man on top of him… (guy getting hit on ground was wearing red [an apparent reference to Mr Zimmerman] calling out for help)".

[ummmm]

This was also quoted..

[i]According to the Associated Press news agency, the woman said: "I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He's very confrontational. It's in his blood. We'll just say that."[i]

[jno]

I don't think any of this is new except the cannabis finding (which doesn't usually turn people into mad attackers). It's always been acknowledged there was a fight, the dispute has been over who started it and why. That doesn't appear to have been answered.

[Philtaz]

Yes, read that too ummmm, not sure she's put that on paper yet though in the form of a statement.

There is this too:
Both NBC's Today show and NBC's network-owned Miami affiliate WTVJ NBC6 ran segments which misleadingly merged parts of Zimmerman's call. On the recording played by NBC, Zimmerman was heard saying, "This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black." In the original 9-1-1 recording, Zimmerman said: "This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about." The 9-1-1 operator then asked: "OK, and this guy, is he black, white or Hispanic?", and Zimmerman answered, "He looks black."[203]

The Washington Post wrote that NBC's alterations "would more readily paint Zimmerman as a racial profiler. In reality... Zimmerman simply answered a question... Nothing prejudicial at all in responding to such an inquiry... To portray that exchange in a way that wrongs Zimmerman is high editorial malpractice..."[203]

NBC apologized for "an error made in the production process that we deeply regret".[242] The network said that the Today show and Miami edits took place in two separate incidents involving different people. Jeff Burnside, a producer involved in editing the NBC6 audio was fired, and two other employees were disciplined.


Like I said, it'll be a propaganda war.

[Davethedog]

The thing is this has now deeply divided the community and beyond. No matter the outcome no ones is going to be happy at the verdict.

There are certain sections that appear to have reached a verdict and they will never see themselves as wrong.

[FredPuli43]

Taking the defence evidence, the question still is whether a man, attacked with fists, is using 'reasonable force' in self-defence when he shoots his assailant at point blank range. That also raises question of whether this state's 'stand your ground' law overrides that principle of common law which applies in most states.

[bazwillrun]

"He had cannabis in his system but I don't see how this is relevant other than to discredit him. "

You cannot be serious ! For Funks Sake

Heres a reason its relevant. if he had "drugs" in him he may well have reacted violently, he may not have reacted in the same way as if he didnt have drugs in him on being confronted.

A bit like saying after a car accident that the driver had been drinking but its not relevant, its just to discredit him

[Philtaz]

This is the US Fred, a single shot whilst allegedly under attack would doubtless be deemed reasonable force there. Zimmerman simply has to say he felt his life was in danger.
Had he emptied the magazine into Martin he would have had some more searching and pertinent questions to answer IMHO.

[ummmm]

Baz, cannabis chills people out.

[daffy654]

bazwillrun, do you have any experience of cannabis at all?

In my experience a person who has used cannabis will not react violently, it isn't an upper like cocaine or amphetamine, it is a 'downer' and tends to slow reactions to an almost standstill. It does not make people violent.

[Philtaz]

The 'chilling' effects of cannabis are well documented, however I'm sure his defence attorney will argue that it can also cause anxiety and panic. "Martin may or may not have gone into 'fight or flight' mode,......Judge".

[Davethedog]

Cannibis - Really. You shouldn't argue if you don't know and its obvious you don't.

Cannabis in his system is more likely to be brought up and used by the defence.

[Philtaz]

Cannibis - Really. You shouldn't argue if you don't know and its obvious you don't.
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More than happy to defer to an 'expert' as I've never used it! I'm sure the defence and prosecution will have their expert witnesses who will provide counter-claim/contradictory evidence.
Either way it'll be beyond dispute that he suffered some form of impairment as a result of use. The jury will decide to what effect.

[bazwillrun]

@daffy

yes, and as you say in your experience, but that counts for jack, because you havent a clue as to how it may or may not of affected this person, so stop making such stooopid statements.

[jno]

the proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness