ChatterBank1 min ago
Getting Bad Tennants Out.
10 Answers
I own a small flat, and rent it out through an agent. The agent got new tennants and allowed them to move in, and I didn't even know the old tenants had gone. The new tenants have been there less than a month and have had 2 massive parties on 2 different Saturday nights. There are only 3 other couples as it is a small block, and these new tenants are causing endless upset, the neighbours naturally are at there wits end. One couple have a toddler and these people have had loud music, hoardes of party goers, loads of cars coming and going and endless drinking. They stand outside smoking all the time, and the smoke gets in the comunal areas. They have thrown there packing boxes out in the road nowhere near the bins and there are boxes and boxes of empty bottles in the corridor. The woman is supposedly pregnant.
I don't want these people upsetting the other people in the block who I have been on good terms with until now. I am desparate to get these people out of my property, but the agent seems extremely reluctant to give them notice even though I have insisted thats what I want. They said its very tricky to get rid of people, and they are doing an inspection this week and informing them of the complaints. I am angry and frustrated with the agents... where do I stand on all this? It feels like I don't have any control over what happens. Incidently the tennants are Eastern European and I don't know if the agents are worried about the tennants saying they are being discriminated against.
I don't want these people upsetting the other people in the block who I have been on good terms with until now. I am desparate to get these people out of my property, but the agent seems extremely reluctant to give them notice even though I have insisted thats what I want. They said its very tricky to get rid of people, and they are doing an inspection this week and informing them of the complaints. I am angry and frustrated with the agents... where do I stand on all this? It feels like I don't have any control over what happens. Incidently the tennants are Eastern European and I don't know if the agents are worried about the tennants saying they are being discriminated against.
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By employing the agent, you have handed them some responsibilty for finding tenants, they need to inforn the new occupants that they are breaching their contract and issue a warning re that. Further misconduct will be acted upon they should be told.
If you want full control over vetting new tenants you should make this clear to the agent or property manage yourself.
Wish you luck.
If you want full control over vetting new tenants you should make this clear to the agent or property manage yourself.
Wish you luck.
I assume they have been given an assured shorthold tenancy, as that is the normal type. If so, you cannot get them out against their will without a Court order, which will take time. You need to make sure that they are breaching the tenancy terms set out in the contract. (If there is any doubt about that, it means the contract is not worded properly - which presumably is the fault of your agent.)
If they are breaching the terms it is no good the agent just talking to them. They must be given a letter setting out the breaches & the consequences if there are any further ones. This should either be delivered by hand in the presence of an independent person who can confirm in Court if needed that they have received it, or be sent by recorded delivery. A copy must be kept.
The letter will provide evidence if it is then necessary to go to Court - i.e. if the breaches continue.
It would also be a good idea to get written complaints from the other tenants detailing the grounds for complaint, as these also coul;d be needed for Court evidence.
Once this is all over sack the agent & get one you can rely on, or do it yourself. Don't tell the agent now that you will be doing this, as they would then have no incentive to sort things out.
Another thing the other tenants can do is to involve the local authority environmental health team, both about any health issues & about undue noise at anti-social hours.
If they are breaching the terms it is no good the agent just talking to them. They must be given a letter setting out the breaches & the consequences if there are any further ones. This should either be delivered by hand in the presence of an independent person who can confirm in Court if needed that they have received it, or be sent by recorded delivery. A copy must be kept.
The letter will provide evidence if it is then necessary to go to Court - i.e. if the breaches continue.
It would also be a good idea to get written complaints from the other tenants detailing the grounds for complaint, as these also coul;d be needed for Court evidence.
Once this is all over sack the agent & get one you can rely on, or do it yourself. Don't tell the agent now that you will be doing this, as they would then have no incentive to sort things out.
Another thing the other tenants can do is to involve the local authority environmental health team, both about any health issues & about undue noise at anti-social hours.
thanks both of you for your advice. it sounds as if its becoming a real nightmare just to get rid of them. One of the other neighbours that has complained told me that legally I have to order the agent to give the tenants notice, and the agents can't refuse to do this. She said she had taken advice on this and legally i was allowed to do this.
The owner of the agent is a bit flash, and I have got the impression his one concern is to keep the commission coming in and not really care about complaints, noise, etc.
The owner of the agent is a bit flash, and I have got the impression his one concern is to keep the commission coming in and not really care about complaints, noise, etc.
I really don't think you should rely on what the neighbour says she has been told. My previous post sets out the position. No notice to quit can be issued unless a breach of tenancy terms has occurred. Even if one is issued, it will only lead to a Court application - eviction without a Court order is illegal assuming (as is certain to be the case unless the agent has behaved totally wrongly) the tenancy is an assured shorthold. The correct legal procedure must be followed.
If you don't trust the agent you should get your own legal advice & then make sure they follow it. You can contact Shelter's helpline - or a visit to your local CAB (take the tenancy agreement with you) may help. Otherwise, you will need to pay a solicitor.
If you don't trust the agent you should get your own legal advice & then make sure they follow it. You can contact Shelter's helpline - or a visit to your local CAB (take the tenancy agreement with you) may help. Otherwise, you will need to pay a solicitor.
I agree with Themas - not every tenant wrecks the house but by God when they do...
I think you are stuck until the end of the lease - if you are lucky 6 months or perhaps a year. When I got stuck with tenants in arrears who er knew the law better than I did, THEIR lawyer said to me - you wouldnt be stuck like this if you had given a 6 month tenancy....
I think you are stuck until the end of the lease - if you are lucky 6 months or perhaps a year. When I got stuck with tenants in arrears who er knew the law better than I did, THEIR lawyer said to me - you wouldnt be stuck like this if you had given a 6 month tenancy....
I really feel for you. I'm going through a similar situation and have been for some time. Although I don't use an agent. Since the tenants moved in a few months ago I have found that the references are all fakes. So it turns out they aren't working but claiming benefits. They are claiming housing benefit to pay the rent but not paying the rent. You need to get a section 21 or section notice to quit. this gives them 2 months notice to quit. If they don't leave at that point then you need to get a court order which can take 6-8 weeks. If they don't leave at that point then you need to get the court to get the bailiffs in. I am no expert on this but I am learning fast!!. I hope your not in a hurry because nobody else will be. It is very frustrating. But do get a solicitor to serve the notice. Any mistakes on the notice to quit and you may have to start again from scratch. DO NOT LET THEM WIND YOU UP. Most important though, good luck.
Agents do have a point, anyway there is a process.
- I would expect that if the agents haven't visited and made them aware of issues of concern (thats if any complaints at all) and followed up properly - then this needs to happen first. Check! to see what they have done and the response as they may not have done anything much to date and also this family may be absolutely fine and good tenants if given a chance. Maybe house warming parties or something like that but they may not know they are causing a problem. They may have a very plausable explanation.
You may have a completely different view on things too if you met the tenants but thats up to you.
Separately (if genuine problems)
- The neighbours can report the "noise nuisance" to the council (in most places) and you'll have logs of any complaints and actually the council may be very helpful and talk to these tenants - if problems continue - and if the tenants know they are on file this could well affect their ability to rent in the future (a deterrant). The tenants may not be doing anything wrong depends on rules of living there etc. Agents can liaise with council then and share info and work towards a solution. Best if any agro - unhappy neighbours etc is managed properly..and recorded!! and issues are handled quickly. (Anthing verbal is a waste of time usually) That evidence is there then if required.
- Some agents issue log sheets to neighbours anyway so they are aware quickly of problems and get straight down there (if complaints have been made). I expect you are paying them for this service but they are unlikely to be proactive if very busy. I know for a fact that agents keep alot from landlords as the reason for them so if you want to know ask them to tell you.
-Have the neighbours actually complained here? Its just some things can be misunderstandings too.
Ok if the rent is paid to you that helps (so if you can get a direct payment of rent if they are on benefits and ask for this to be set up straight away this helps you and them) this can be set up by a landlord if there are some arrears already (not sure how much)or you have a good reason for the request say the tenant is struggling to forward the monies and tells you this and puts them at risk of homelessness down the line. Much better if they agree to this suggestion. Think about the benefit to them. It can be a suggestion to help them and it helps you too and they may not know they can do this.
- Did they pay rent in advance (months ?)
- Are you part of a bond guarantee scheme - (any environmental problems caused by them and rubbish etc - get the agent to go over this with them if necessary so they fully understand the costs that sort of thing can incur.
Let the bond cover what it does -If the agents took a bond from them and if the upkeep of the environment near the property is expected make sure this is made clear (I'm sure it is) but it could be just an oversight on their part.
If you are not in a bond scheme this could leave you yourself vulnerable.
Hope this helps. You want a win win situation here and if the tenant is on your side then -you might not need to evict at all and if you do then at least they are likely to be more co-operative.
If they have a baby soon themselves they will understand neighbours with small kids (hopefully) and I'd imagine the last thing they will want to do is move again for a while and have alot of parties. I'm guessing!
Oh yes - if you do ever issue a NTQ (notice to quit) as mentioned it must be accurate or it is invalid. If you are not in a bond scheme - do get this sorted out very!! quickly before you even think of issuing a NTQ ..
- I would expect that if the agents haven't visited and made them aware of issues of concern (thats if any complaints at all) and followed up properly - then this needs to happen first. Check! to see what they have done and the response as they may not have done anything much to date and also this family may be absolutely fine and good tenants if given a chance. Maybe house warming parties or something like that but they may not know they are causing a problem. They may have a very plausable explanation.
You may have a completely different view on things too if you met the tenants but thats up to you.
Separately (if genuine problems)
- The neighbours can report the "noise nuisance" to the council (in most places) and you'll have logs of any complaints and actually the council may be very helpful and talk to these tenants - if problems continue - and if the tenants know they are on file this could well affect their ability to rent in the future (a deterrant). The tenants may not be doing anything wrong depends on rules of living there etc. Agents can liaise with council then and share info and work towards a solution. Best if any agro - unhappy neighbours etc is managed properly..and recorded!! and issues are handled quickly. (Anthing verbal is a waste of time usually) That evidence is there then if required.
- Some agents issue log sheets to neighbours anyway so they are aware quickly of problems and get straight down there (if complaints have been made). I expect you are paying them for this service but they are unlikely to be proactive if very busy. I know for a fact that agents keep alot from landlords as the reason for them so if you want to know ask them to tell you.
-Have the neighbours actually complained here? Its just some things can be misunderstandings too.
Ok if the rent is paid to you that helps (so if you can get a direct payment of rent if they are on benefits and ask for this to be set up straight away this helps you and them) this can be set up by a landlord if there are some arrears already (not sure how much)or you have a good reason for the request say the tenant is struggling to forward the monies and tells you this and puts them at risk of homelessness down the line. Much better if they agree to this suggestion. Think about the benefit to them. It can be a suggestion to help them and it helps you too and they may not know they can do this.
- Did they pay rent in advance (months ?)
- Are you part of a bond guarantee scheme - (any environmental problems caused by them and rubbish etc - get the agent to go over this with them if necessary so they fully understand the costs that sort of thing can incur.
Let the bond cover what it does -If the agents took a bond from them and if the upkeep of the environment near the property is expected make sure this is made clear (I'm sure it is) but it could be just an oversight on their part.
If you are not in a bond scheme this could leave you yourself vulnerable.
Hope this helps. You want a win win situation here and if the tenant is on your side then -you might not need to evict at all and if you do then at least they are likely to be more co-operative.
If they have a baby soon themselves they will understand neighbours with small kids (hopefully) and I'd imagine the last thing they will want to do is move again for a while and have alot of parties. I'm guessing!
Oh yes - if you do ever issue a NTQ (notice to quit) as mentioned it must be accurate or it is invalid. If you are not in a bond scheme - do get this sorted out very!! quickly before you even think of issuing a NTQ ..
wallis - a Section 21 notice is only effective after the fixed term of the tenancy has ended, so if there is a fixed term of 12 months it cannot be brought to an end before the 12 months is up by issuing a section 21. The notice can be issued during the fixed term, but what it is then doing is giving notice to quit after the fixed term has ended. Legal advice on the niceties of this is essential for anyone who is not totally sure about it.
During the fixed term a notice to quit (i.e. a notice seeking possession which leads to a Court decision on whether the tenant can be evicted) can be issued on various grounds which are listed in the legislation. With some grounds (e.g. 2 months rent arrears) the Court must grant an eviction order if the case is proved; with other grounds the Court has discretion. Again, legal advice is essential.
During the fixed term a notice to quit (i.e. a notice seeking possession which leads to a Court decision on whether the tenant can be evicted) can be issued on various grounds which are listed in the legislation. With some grounds (e.g. 2 months rent arrears) the Court must grant an eviction order if the case is proved; with other grounds the Court has discretion. Again, legal advice is essential.
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