Film, Media & TV2 mins ago
Hgv Fatal Accidents
35 Answers
I was reading about the fatal accident where a tipper wagon killed several people yesterday ( http://
We obviously don't know yet what caused this accident, but I was prompted to the thought that there seem to be a very high proportion of fatal accidents which involve HGVs.
I did a bit of digging and found this report
http://
which really, really shocked me.
HGVs are around 5 TIMES more likely to be involved in fatal accidents (mile for mile) than other vehicles. This was 2012 data and the trend was firmly upward, so it is now likely to be much worse than that, already appalling, figure.
Patently "Something Needs to be Done" - but (all) governments seem to be scared stiff of the Road Freight Lobby (or are in its pay). Far from tightening up on HGV safety, regulations are actually being relaxed on HGV speeds and there seems to be no appetite for any new initiatives to improve HGV safety - either in the standards of driving or maintenance.
There are good HGV drivers out there, probably most of them, but the rogue elements seem to be (by accident or design) carrying out a cull of more vulnerable road users.
What should be done?
We obviously don't know yet what caused this accident, but I was prompted to the thought that there seem to be a very high proportion of fatal accidents which involve HGVs.
I did a bit of digging and found this report
http://
which really, really shocked me.
HGVs are around 5 TIMES more likely to be involved in fatal accidents (mile for mile) than other vehicles. This was 2012 data and the trend was firmly upward, so it is now likely to be much worse than that, already appalling, figure.
Patently "Something Needs to be Done" - but (all) governments seem to be scared stiff of the Road Freight Lobby (or are in its pay). Far from tightening up on HGV safety, regulations are actually being relaxed on HGV speeds and there seems to be no appetite for any new initiatives to improve HGV safety - either in the standards of driving or maintenance.
There are good HGV drivers out there, probably most of them, but the rogue elements seem to be (by accident or design) carrying out a cull of more vulnerable road users.
What should be done?
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A lot of the incidents result from car drivers having no idea of the forces involved when professional drivers have to take evasive action because Tarquin has dropped his shaver or latte.
Large goods vehicles are regulated up the wazoo.
In short pay attention in your beamer and we'll all get on fine.
Large goods vehicles are regulated up the wazoo.
In short pay attention in your beamer and we'll all get on fine.
My cousin died when an HGV "wandered" into the lay by that he'd pulled into because his little boy was sick.
On Tuesday early evening we had to take avoidance action when an HGV suddenly pulled up without signalling, to turn left and found his path partially blocked by another lorry parked at the side of the road.
There does seem to be too many large vehicles on our roads and the numbers are swelling thanks to Europen vehicles.
On Tuesday early evening we had to take avoidance action when an HGV suddenly pulled up without signalling, to turn left and found his path partially blocked by another lorry parked at the side of the road.
There does seem to be too many large vehicles on our roads and the numbers are swelling thanks to Europen vehicles.
On the face of it, if there was a fixed odds of 'human factors' causing vehicles to collide, you would still have to anticipate more fatalities where trucks are involved just because of the sheer kinetic energy (1/2 mv^2) of something which weighs 7 to 38 tonnes, instead of 1-2 tonnes.
Trucks don't seem to have crumple zones - at least not all-round ones - and car crumple zones are only truly effective when they hit another car's crumple zone. Between them, they decelerate both sets of passengers safely.
So, you will have to apply some mathematical correction factors to 'normalise' the damage capacity/lethality of each vehicle weight class in order to see if there was any detectable imbalance remaining, which *might* be attributable to differences in driver behaviour.
I don't expect any such variation to be found, at least not in the direction of trucks. Their lifetime mileage is higher, so their miles/accident is, logically, going to be higher. They're doing up to 10hrs' driving per day not just a couple of commutes, yet car drivers don't seem to have an accident rate which is lower, proportionately to that hrs/day difference.
In terms of practical solutions, it would be great to force long-distance goods back onto the railways again but the road lobby rendered that system uneconomic before and would do so again.
Truck-only motorways and trunk roads are a tempting idea but new builds are ludicrously expensive and, ultimately, it would just be a tarmac equivalent of a railway, anyway.
Of course there is always the possibility that a high tech solution will come about far faster than we could make a massive infrastructure changes to separate trucks from cars. We can't always persuade people to drive more sensibly but we could see robot vehicle control introduced to reduce the hazardous behaviour people indulge in on the motorways.
Trucks don't seem to have crumple zones - at least not all-round ones - and car crumple zones are only truly effective when they hit another car's crumple zone. Between them, they decelerate both sets of passengers safely.
So, you will have to apply some mathematical correction factors to 'normalise' the damage capacity/lethality of each vehicle weight class in order to see if there was any detectable imbalance remaining, which *might* be attributable to differences in driver behaviour.
I don't expect any such variation to be found, at least not in the direction of trucks. Their lifetime mileage is higher, so their miles/accident is, logically, going to be higher. They're doing up to 10hrs' driving per day not just a couple of commutes, yet car drivers don't seem to have an accident rate which is lower, proportionately to that hrs/day difference.
In terms of practical solutions, it would be great to force long-distance goods back onto the railways again but the road lobby rendered that system uneconomic before and would do so again.
Truck-only motorways and trunk roads are a tempting idea but new builds are ludicrously expensive and, ultimately, it would just be a tarmac equivalent of a railway, anyway.
Of course there is always the possibility that a high tech solution will come about far faster than we could make a massive infrastructure changes to separate trucks from cars. We can't always persuade people to drive more sensibly but we could see robot vehicle control introduced to reduce the hazardous behaviour people indulge in on the motorways.
This is an article from 2010 - it is only quoting London, but is highly relevant to the rest of the UK IMO. Of course, if rail freight costs were reduced or subsidised in some way, maybe the roads could have fewer of these HGV's. That would reduce deaths, and ease traffic on roads (especially motorways).
TTT / Dave, I will try to reply to this in the best of my HGV Experience, thre HGV It self is as safe as the person that is driving it, to start, some have a driving lesson on a Monday & by Frid they THINK THE are a Trucker " My rsss" they go with an empty Unit ? Trailer for the duration of their training & have no idea how the GHV Responds with a load on, If a Tank, you have sway, if carrying Livestock, you have Side Movement ( Sway) Steel, not many Headboards on trailers have Steel Head boards to protect the Driver if the Driver Has to Slap on because some clown has missed his / her turning, Im have seen the Glory Boys in their BIG Lorries with 20 Bloody head lights on the roof that look like a Xmas tree & a blow up in the Passenger seat, ( I was / Never one of these) the HGV is lethal but its as safe as the person that drives it, NLO PERSON that has not got at least 1 years Experience should drive an Artic 44Tonnes, I had beern driving 40+ years & still learning with things you carried, regards the GHVs from abroad, just remember, when on a motorway & you are under their line of vision ( Near their Off / Side Drivers wheel) he /she can not see you, that truck may have a STEP MIRROR above the Drivers / Passengers Door, but It is a blind spot & a danger area, a tip for some on Motorway Driving, apart from the Obvious Name of the Company on the Taut ( Curtain Sider) as you approach the truck look at their Number Plate, that more that often tells you that that HGV Is a Left Hand Drive, that could be the drivers 1st time over to the UK so be warned, Slapping on / Cutting in front of a HGV Can cause death, I've seen it, I have seen Steel go through a Driver Cab all because some Basds Missed their turning, I have seen HGVs turn over because some one has dropped his /her tea in their cars / Vans, I will stick up for the Drivers as I was there myself, Many time Trying to get out in the Overtaking lane only to be held back by some idiot that thinks the outside lane was his /. her lane only, to say "Keep the HGVs to the Inside Lane is Silly" Why, the Motorways are now blocked up because of the 56MPH Rule, when we were at 60 the traffic was flowing & flowing well, "Vision" In that cab Our vision was 20+cars ahead of the Private Motorist & coild see what was going on ahead ( Forward Planning) If I ever seen anything up ahead that was reducing the flow I would put on my "Hazards" that give some the warning something they could not see was happening, The things we could see from the cabs would open your eyes regards persons in passing cars, men / Women W------G, the same giving a B---W Jobs, I am not joking by what I have said, until the public are trained on the Likes Of Motorways Accidents will be cause, Not Happen, they are caused to happen, Regards the Safety of the HGV + Trailer, the load Movement is up to the Driver, Steel, there is not much you can do about that moving, steel is one of the worst loads you can carry, 2 things stop that load going forward, Chains that hold it down & the timbers the load is sitting on, on the Bed of the Trailer, other loads like Food / Timber / are strapped within & hardly ever move, there is Glass Bottles on pallets, a very bad load, we used to carry them fro Hitchin to Preston, the load sways like hell due the height of the bottles to the base of the Pallet & is only Shrink Wrapped ( Waste Of Time) an artic / 8 Wheeler on a long down hill decent has an Exhaust brake, is device chokes the engine to a degree that it helps to slow the HGV down, but if that HGV has 44Tonnes or the likes on its back the driver relies on his brakes, & yes, as big & as Safe as a HGV appears it can have brake fade, this can happen with continues use of the brakes instead of using the gears this is when experience comes in, a lot of SO CALLED HGV drivers that you see on Tippers are driver that has not long passed their test due to Company's will not Employ them due to lack of experience.
Good post, TWR.
I'm not a trucker myself but I've always thought it hazardous that some car drivers perform motorway overtakes at only 1-2mph faster than the thing they are overtaking so, if it's a truck, they're in the blind spot by the cab for 20-30 seconds.
If there's enough space, I prefer to boost the speed by 5-10 mph, scoot past, then slow back to the same speed as everything else in lane 2 & 3. Once all the trucks are overtaken, I use lane 1, as a sarcastic gesture to middle-lane hogs.
That last sentence? Are you saying newly qualified drivers have no choice but tipper truck work because they're too under experienced to be hired by big haulage firms?
Might it be that tipper companies can't afford high wages and their best drivers get 'poached' by the big hauliers, thus leaving them with the less-experienced drivers?
Also, would you say sand or gravel loads are tricky?
I'm not a trucker myself but I've always thought it hazardous that some car drivers perform motorway overtakes at only 1-2mph faster than the thing they are overtaking so, if it's a truck, they're in the blind spot by the cab for 20-30 seconds.
If there's enough space, I prefer to boost the speed by 5-10 mph, scoot past, then slow back to the same speed as everything else in lane 2 & 3. Once all the trucks are overtaken, I use lane 1, as a sarcastic gesture to middle-lane hogs.
That last sentence? Are you saying newly qualified drivers have no choice but tipper truck work because they're too under experienced to be hired by big haulage firms?
Might it be that tipper companies can't afford high wages and their best drivers get 'poached' by the big hauliers, thus leaving them with the less-experienced drivers?
Also, would you say sand or gravel loads are tricky?
To Add, Hypo believe me the HGV do bend but not in the way you think, due to the height of the Truck the drive would not feel an impact by hitting a car, but HGV To HGV, this can take the Drivers life, another thing regards HGVs Trailers loosing their wheels, this used to be a regular thing but now you may notice Yellow POINTERS in the middle of the 10 stud wheel, these pointers are attached to the wheel nuts and point to the nut next to it, if the point does not meet the point that indicates one of the nuts is loose, this has stopped trailers loosing the wheels, Re-threads on the Motorway used to be caused by Bandag Rubbish remoulds, not the Drivers fault but the Company's way of saving money, If you think a Driver Enjoys holding the Traffic behind, you are mistaken, yes It is annoying when you are stuck of a Duel Carr way and your waiting to pass, I used to bide my time, the drivers hours are limited as said, 41/2 hrs then a 45min break, this can be taken in 15 mins breaks, the driver can get fined if he / she sets off with 2>>3 mins left of the completed break, He / She can get done for exceeding the Daily driving hours by 5 mins unless stuck in a pile up etc, a lot think that Driving a Large HGV pays fantastic money! Dream On, its the only job in the UK that you can get done in the Thousands or Loose your Living if continues exceeding your hours ( I agree with that, the Fine I mean, but not loosing his living, In the past I have had Transport Managers ask me to do stupid things to get to a destination, the last part of my answer was Off, I was a driver not a Cowboy, the next time you have it in your mind to cut up a HGV, think about how many peoples lives this could effect, it could be a death, it could be to deprive someone of a Father / Mother / children / a Pregnant woman just by either leaving it too late to come off for a M Junction that should have been pre planned, just think about that load of steel on the back of that trailer where is it going to land, & when the go, they go like missiles remember that, timber are packed & when the drop, they drop in one god help what it lands on, there is only one winner & that's the timber, I use to drive to the Weather condition? what do I mean by that? I can not see through a brick wall & that brick wall if Fog, Snow, one winner with an Artic, I have tried to give you an insight to the things that can happen, I have not tried to Preach neither have I tried to be " I know it all, I don't) but there is one thing I do know by experience, if a collision occurs between a HGV due to the Mindless actions of the Car / Van Driver, one winner.
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Hypo, the Loads are as safe as the person driving it, tipper work is totally different & you can not compare General Haulage to Tipper Work, the Company's that employ young tipper drivers normally know that the Driver has either just past his / her test has no experience & wants a job, when I started I started on a 2 axle tipper / 6>8 Wheel Tipper / Artic, that's the way it should be done but no doubt some will think difference! As said if people out there think that HGV Drivers are on Fantastic money for the HGV / Load they are carrying, and that can be in the Hundreds /Thousands of pounds on one load, think on, they are not.
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