ChatterBank9 mins ago
Who Could Possibly Have Predicted Problems With Smart-Meters?
82 Answers
Posted by Hymie: 23:27 Fri 11th Nov 2022:-
//.....And should your smart meter go wrong and disconnect you – if you think your supplier is going to rush round and fix it, your thinking is wrong.
Why anyone would have a smart meter fitted is a mystery to me.//
https:/
//.....And should your smart meter go wrong and disconnect you – if you think your supplier is going to rush round and fix it, your thinking is wrong.
Why anyone would have a smart meter fitted is a mystery to me.//
https:/
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‘ The idea that you need to know how much a light bulb costs to run before you will think about turning it off is ludicrous’
It is indeed, both in principal and for the reason that it would be virtually impossible to tell how much said lightbulb was costing unless you switched everything else off……..including the display!
It is indeed, both in principal and for the reason that it would be virtually impossible to tell how much said lightbulb was costing unless you switched everything else off……..including the display!
//Can they really do that……select one hose whose power remains live?// sic
In theory it is indeed possible Zacs Master. However those with "smart" meters have rights equal to those without them and cannot be arbitrarily disconnected without good reason. It is also not beyond the realms of possibility that in times of "emergency" the Government could well, using said "emergency" powers, grant the energy companies permission to reduce consumption in times of shortages by utilising the very useful facility of disconnection by smart meter. When the grid is closed down over very large areas and consequently switched on again it is done in short order and is very difficult to control. Particularly when switching back on. If a reduction in use was essential and emergency powers granted( think pandemic) then the energy providers could effect a controlled reduction by using the smart meters to shut down individual properties in a gradual way. Likewise when switching them back on. This would be much safer and less of a strain on the grid infrastructure, therefor causing less damage to transformers and lines. Non payment disconnection is already happening remotely, I believe, using smart meter technology. It would be a very socially divisive tactic mind you to switch off some of the population and not others. Imagine the neighbours asking if they could plug their telly into your non smart supply. :))
In theory it is indeed possible Zacs Master. However those with "smart" meters have rights equal to those without them and cannot be arbitrarily disconnected without good reason. It is also not beyond the realms of possibility that in times of "emergency" the Government could well, using said "emergency" powers, grant the energy companies permission to reduce consumption in times of shortages by utilising the very useful facility of disconnection by smart meter. When the grid is closed down over very large areas and consequently switched on again it is done in short order and is very difficult to control. Particularly when switching back on. If a reduction in use was essential and emergency powers granted( think pandemic) then the energy providers could effect a controlled reduction by using the smart meters to shut down individual properties in a gradual way. Likewise when switching them back on. This would be much safer and less of a strain on the grid infrastructure, therefor causing less damage to transformers and lines. Non payment disconnection is already happening remotely, I believe, using smart meter technology. It would be a very socially divisive tactic mind you to switch off some of the population and not others. Imagine the neighbours asking if they could plug their telly into your non smart supply. :))
I keep getting text messages and letters from EoN asking me when they can install a smart meter. I phoned them and asked them to stop doing it as I don't want a smart meter. After the latest text message from them, I reportd it to 7726 as spam. That was 3 days ago. I'll wait to see if I get any more text messages but if I get any more letters, I'm just going to return to sender.
The question of disconnection by means of a smart meter is somewhat moot.
The disconnection of Domestic electricity supply is governed by "Standard Conditions of Electricity Supply Licence" which is a document issued under the Electricity Act 1989. Buried among its 569 pages, is this:
27.09 The licensee must not Disconnect a Domestic Premises at which the Domestic Customer has not paid Charges unless it has first taken all reasonable steps to recover those charges…
27.10 The licensee must not Disconnect, in Winter, a Domestic Premises at which the Domestic Customer has not paid Charges if it knows or has reason to believe that the customer is of Pensionable Age and lives alone or lives only with persons who are of Pensionable Age or under the age of 18.
27.11 The licensee must take all reasonable steps to avoid Disconnecting, in Winter, a Domestic Premises at which the Domestic Customer has not paid Charges if the occupants of the premises include a person who is of Pensionable Age, disabled
or chronically sick and to whom paragraph 27.10 does not apply.
There is also provision in the legislation to prevent disconnection (to any domestic supply) unless seven days notice, in writing, has been provided.
I've not looked at the equivalent legislation for Gas supply - if it too runs to 500 plus pages somebody else can do it but I imagine similar protections are in place.
But the important point is this: these protections exist regardless of the type of meter the customer has. The energy supplier must abide by these protections whether he has a conventional meter or a smart meter. They may be able to disconnect remotely via a smart meter, but they are not entitled to do so unless the legislation is followed.
I am increasingly of the belief that the OP of this question is once again frantically searching for circumstances to highlight the way
The disconnection of Domestic electricity supply is governed by "Standard Conditions of Electricity Supply Licence" which is a document issued under the Electricity Act 1989. Buried among its 569 pages, is this:
27.09 The licensee must not Disconnect a Domestic Premises at which the Domestic Customer has not paid Charges unless it has first taken all reasonable steps to recover those charges…
27.10 The licensee must not Disconnect, in Winter, a Domestic Premises at which the Domestic Customer has not paid Charges if it knows or has reason to believe that the customer is of Pensionable Age and lives alone or lives only with persons who are of Pensionable Age or under the age of 18.
27.11 The licensee must take all reasonable steps to avoid Disconnecting, in Winter, a Domestic Premises at which the Domestic Customer has not paid Charges if the occupants of the premises include a person who is of Pensionable Age, disabled
or chronically sick and to whom paragraph 27.10 does not apply.
There is also provision in the legislation to prevent disconnection (to any domestic supply) unless seven days notice, in writing, has been provided.
I've not looked at the equivalent legislation for Gas supply - if it too runs to 500 plus pages somebody else can do it but I imagine similar protections are in place.
But the important point is this: these protections exist regardless of the type of meter the customer has. The energy supplier must abide by these protections whether he has a conventional meter or a smart meter. They may be able to disconnect remotely via a smart meter, but they are not entitled to do so unless the legislation is followed.
I am increasingly of the belief that the OP of this question is once again frantically searching for circumstances to highlight the way
The Standard Conditions of Electricity Supply Licence rules and regs have very quietly been under review for 2 or 3 years Judge under the banner of The Smart Energy Code. The Smart Energy Code(SEC) is a multi-Party agreement which defines the rights and obligations of energy suppliers, network operators and other relevant parties involved in the end to end management of smart metering in Great Britain. Decisions have indeed been made this month(the 5th) but I have not yet found the will power to wade through the new and exciting findings. I have a couple of links that may enliven the day for the particularly keen reader.
https:/
Here is the latest Government(stage 3) paper.
https:/
https:/
Here is the latest Government(stage 3) paper.
https:/
//So , what do you think of Smart Meters ,NJ?//
As far as the consumer goes they are an absolute waste of time and money (but see below for one exception). They are sold on the premise that they "save you money." They don't. The only thing that saves you money is an "off" switch.
They have advantages for the supplier as I am quite sure that differential pricing will be introduced before too long. They will charge you more to switch a light on when it's dark and more to turn your heating on when it's cold.
The consumer MAY be able to benefit from a smart meter if he can take advantage of any "off peak" tariffs he might stumble across, though I imagine any advantages will be minimal and short lived.
I don't have a smart meter and have no intention of getting one any time soon. I know exactly how much gas and electricity I use each month and how much I should be charged. I check my monthly bill against my calculations to ensure it is correct. I turn lights on when it's dark and turn them off if I no longer need them. I turn my heating on when it's cold, and leave it off if I am comfortable. I do not need any devices to accomplish any of that other than my electricity and gas meters and the on/off switches.
As far as the consumer goes they are an absolute waste of time and money (but see below for one exception). They are sold on the premise that they "save you money." They don't. The only thing that saves you money is an "off" switch.
They have advantages for the supplier as I am quite sure that differential pricing will be introduced before too long. They will charge you more to switch a light on when it's dark and more to turn your heating on when it's cold.
The consumer MAY be able to benefit from a smart meter if he can take advantage of any "off peak" tariffs he might stumble across, though I imagine any advantages will be minimal and short lived.
I don't have a smart meter and have no intention of getting one any time soon. I know exactly how much gas and electricity I use each month and how much I should be charged. I check my monthly bill against my calculations to ensure it is correct. I turn lights on when it's dark and turn them off if I no longer need them. I turn my heating on when it's cold, and leave it off if I am comfortable. I do not need any devices to accomplish any of that other than my electricity and gas meters and the on/off switches.
Goodgoalie as I pay by dd I had no idea how much my energy was costing. In March BG would send me the end of year reconciliation and change of dd if needed. There's no way I'd have bothered to get the tariff and usage and work out my energy cost. Now those figures are to hand and I'm making economies.
My annual standing charge for both fuels with BG is £225. (28.49p gas and 33.16p electricity x365 days) Maybe you should change supplier goodgoalie, your £283 looks a bit high.
Gingejbee I'm not dumb just lazy!
My annual standing charge for both fuels with BG is £225. (28.49p gas and 33.16p electricity x365 days) Maybe you should change supplier goodgoalie, your £283 looks a bit high.
Gingejbee I'm not dumb just lazy!
//For the folks that don't want a smart meter but still want to be able to track what electricity they are using, why not just install your own energy consumption device?//
The device we use is accessible via our home network. We have it set up so that it tells us how much energy we are consuming and a breakdown of how much the servers are using etc. I guess you could say we have gone over the top with the level of monitoring in our house, however for us it works because it's usually a good way of knowing if we've accidentally left something on/running - my OH is disabled so knowing if an appliance has been left on is rather handy.
I could check the meter to see how many units we've used, as I'm sure some people do. With the system we have, I can check how much was being used 4 months ago (not that I need to). It works for us, it was just a suggestion to folk that may not be able to check their meter.
The device we use is accessible via our home network. We have it set up so that it tells us how much energy we are consuming and a breakdown of how much the servers are using etc. I guess you could say we have gone over the top with the level of monitoring in our house, however for us it works because it's usually a good way of knowing if we've accidentally left something on/running - my OH is disabled so knowing if an appliance has been left on is rather handy.
I could check the meter to see how many units we've used, as I'm sure some people do. With the system we have, I can check how much was being used 4 months ago (not that I need to). It works for us, it was just a suggestion to folk that may not be able to check their meter.
My energy consumption monitor: https:/
Misc Information dashboard: https:/
Great for someone that wants to keep an eye on things but also doesn't want to have a SMART meter installed (not that we'd be given one anyway!).
Misc Information dashboard: https:/
Great for someone that wants to keep an eye on things but also doesn't want to have a SMART meter installed (not that we'd be given one anyway!).
//It is 'disconnection' by another name, without the legal difficulties.//
There are no "Legal Difficulties" with disconnection currently. A warrant is not required to terminate supply or to fit a pre-payment meter. A warrant of entry is only required to allow entry to premises to do so and, with a warrant, this can be made by force if necessary. A court issuing such a warrant may enquire that the procedures I outlined in my earlier post have been followed (which they should have been before the supplier decides to take action). But provided they are satisfied that they have, the warrant will be granted. Of course if the meters are accessible from outside the premises (common with gas meters but less so with electricity) no warrant at all is necessary.
There are no "Legal Difficulties" with disconnection currently. A warrant is not required to terminate supply or to fit a pre-payment meter. A warrant of entry is only required to allow entry to premises to do so and, with a warrant, this can be made by force if necessary. A court issuing such a warrant may enquire that the procedures I outlined in my earlier post have been followed (which they should have been before the supplier decides to take action). But provided they are satisfied that they have, the warrant will be granted. Of course if the meters are accessible from outside the premises (common with gas meters but less so with electricity) no warrant at all is necessary.
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