Bayern Munich question

[Mosaic]

Why is it normal to say or write Bayern Muich, rather than Bayern Muenchen or Bavaria Munich?

[tonyav]

No idea Mosiac, It just seems to be the way it's always been.

[Mosaic]

But...but....b...

[Bambiagain]

Eine sehr gute Frage...

[Mosaic]

Jawohl, aber....warum?

[Bambiagain]

Ich habe keine Ahnung. Hier in Deutschland sagen sie natürlich Bayern München.

[Mosaic]

Also, recht vielen Dank Bambi!

[Bambiagain]

Nichts zu danken.

[Mosaic]

Is this where Baz comes in and goes all Basil fawlty......

[Bambiagain]

I expect so. Mind you, my OH likes Fawlty Towers and enjoys a little jolly banter along the lines of "Don't mention the war," etc.

[Mick-Talbot]

Same as we say Germany not Deutschland I suposse

[Mosaic]

It's not quite the same Mick - it's inconsistent. we say Bavaria, not Bayern. Like we say Germany, not Deutschland. We say Munich not Muenchen.
But we say Bayern Munich.....

[Mosaic]

Bambi, German TV seems also to enjoy Hale and Pace.....

[Bambiagain]

Midsummer Murders is particularly popular, as is anything by Rosamund Pilcher. They all think I'm crazy when I say she's not that well known in England and I've never read anything of hers despite being a total bookworm. But those who haven't been to England imagine it's like a Midsummer Murders set (hopefully with fewer murders).

[Bambiagain]

Actually, apropros of my other thread and your last comment there, I was speaking to someone who owns an old American car. He had to email the States about parts and used an online translator. They didn't understand a word. He came to me and asked for my help in the future.

[eyethenkyew]

There's no rational explanation. The club is known in the English speaking world as Bayern Munich. Yes, "Bayern" is the German word for what is known in English as "Bavaria", and "Muenchen"(Munich) (note the 'eu' which is transliterated from the umlaut above the letter 'u' but does not exist in English, hence the 'eu'.

In the German language, an umlaut(two dots) is sometimes used above the vowels 'a' and/or 'u', and when transliterated to English are shown as 'ae'(Maennchen, i.e. literally a 'little figure') or 'ue'(Muenchen for Munich).

So, after that confusing explanation, just keep calling them 'Bayern Munich' - everyone else does.

[Mosaic]

Eyethenkyew, I get the impression that Muenchen is not a diminutive, but a reference to the town belonging to the monks. There is a monk on the town coat of arms and the land was originally owned by a monastery.

[eyethenkyew]

I'm no historian so I can't answer your query about the coat of arms.

As far as I'm aware, Muenchen isn't a diminutive, although I stand corrected. Of course in the German language, as in others, there certainly are nouns which are diminutives, i.e. for the romantically inclined there's Liebchen which is a lovey dovey version of Lieber ('Lover').

In German there are basically two suffixes used to denote the diminutive. They are: -chen as in Huendchen from Hund(Dog)
-lein as in Spieglein from Spiegel(Mirror)

There are loads of other words similarly contrived and other languages also have similar forms of diminutives being used and employed within them.

[craft1948]

Rosamund Pilcher not well known in England!!...............wash your mouth out.

[Mosaic]

The diminutive forms are regional ETY - with the -chen being a northern prefernce, the 'l' (Spieglein, Spieglein, and der Wand, wer ist die scheonsten im ganzen Land) being southern / alpine

[shaneystar2]

She is well known in England craft and there's no need to say ..wash your mouth out ....but she is far more popular in Germany because ZDF have produced well over a hundred of her stories for television .Not something they have done here .In fact I think the only one shown on TV here was The Shell Seekers .