ChatterBank0 min ago
How Can I Get My Caution Removed From Pnc
I had a simple caution due to an argument with my wife. I believe I am innocent. I accepted the caution without fully understanding its after effects.
Some may argue that I was informed of the consequences. Yes, I was. But as you may imagine, we can not fully understand a lot of things unless we go through it.
For example, I was informed that the caution will impact permanent residency at some countries (but not UK), and the caution will exclude people from working with vulnerable people.
I am not a UK citizen. When I accepted the simple caution, it did not affect my UK immigration status. A simple caution was not even considered in the assessment of good character. However from 13th December 2012, a simple caution will lead to mandatory refusal of permanent residency application. The immigration rule applies retrospectively. Regarding the vulnerable people, young apprentices who are taller than me are also included, which is something I originally did not expect.
Having said so much, I want to talk about my case now. For those who have experience or knowledge, could you please give me some ideas? I will greatly appreciate your input.
1. my arrest was inordinate.
I had an argument with my wife. My wife called a helpline to find someone to talke to. The lady on the other end of the phone asked to speak to me. I talked to her and she asked for my name and address. My wife grabbed my phone and switched it off before I could finish. After a while two policemen came. I opened the door and thought that the policemen came to mediate between us. They separated me and my wife (with two kids). The policemen asked what happened. The police with my wife asked my wife to authorise him to arrest me. My wife clearly said no. But the police assured my wife that he had to take me to the police station to investigate and it would not do any harm to me and I would come home quickly. I was then arrested.
2. my behavour does not constitute a battery.
The offence of my simple caution is battery.
According to section 39 Criminal Justice Act 1988, a battery is committed when a person intentionally and recklessly applies unlawful force to another.
The only body touch between me and my wife was my pulling and slapping her arm. I did not want to listen, when she was complaining about me. I wanted to go out and she did not want me to go out. So she stood in front of the door. I pulled her arm and slapped it once in the struggle with her. I did not pull or slap her arm recklessly. I never acted recklessly to anyone. All my intention was to get her away from the door so that I could get out.
My question is, according to my above statements, is there any chance for me to convince relevant people in the police that my case is exceptional and my caution should be removed from PNC records?
Some may argue that I was informed of the consequences. Yes, I was. But as you may imagine, we can not fully understand a lot of things unless we go through it.
For example, I was informed that the caution will impact permanent residency at some countries (but not UK), and the caution will exclude people from working with vulnerable people.
I am not a UK citizen. When I accepted the simple caution, it did not affect my UK immigration status. A simple caution was not even considered in the assessment of good character. However from 13th December 2012, a simple caution will lead to mandatory refusal of permanent residency application. The immigration rule applies retrospectively. Regarding the vulnerable people, young apprentices who are taller than me are also included, which is something I originally did not expect.
Having said so much, I want to talk about my case now. For those who have experience or knowledge, could you please give me some ideas? I will greatly appreciate your input.
1. my arrest was inordinate.
I had an argument with my wife. My wife called a helpline to find someone to talke to. The lady on the other end of the phone asked to speak to me. I talked to her and she asked for my name and address. My wife grabbed my phone and switched it off before I could finish. After a while two policemen came. I opened the door and thought that the policemen came to mediate between us. They separated me and my wife (with two kids). The policemen asked what happened. The police with my wife asked my wife to authorise him to arrest me. My wife clearly said no. But the police assured my wife that he had to take me to the police station to investigate and it would not do any harm to me and I would come home quickly. I was then arrested.
2. my behavour does not constitute a battery.
The offence of my simple caution is battery.
According to section 39 Criminal Justice Act 1988, a battery is committed when a person intentionally and recklessly applies unlawful force to another.
The only body touch between me and my wife was my pulling and slapping her arm. I did not want to listen, when she was complaining about me. I wanted to go out and she did not want me to go out. So she stood in front of the door. I pulled her arm and slapped it once in the struggle with her. I did not pull or slap her arm recklessly. I never acted recklessly to anyone. All my intention was to get her away from the door so that I could get out.
My question is, according to my above statements, is there any chance for me to convince relevant people in the police that my case is exceptional and my caution should be removed from PNC records?
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i think it extremely unlikely. You may believe you are innocent but as you have said, by accepting the caution you admitted your guilt (so all that went before regarding the arrest And what actually happened is completely irrelevant) It's like going to court and pleading guilty - you are accepting all the consequences that brings (even the unforeseen ones). The people who told you it would not affect your immigration status were absolutely correct and weren't to know that that would change in the furutre.
Regarding that- are you sure about it? It's unusual for laws to be applied retrospectively.
I'm not sure how someone being taller than you is relevant to their vulnerability.
Regarding that- are you sure about it? It's unusual for laws to be applied retrospectively.
I'm not sure how someone being taller than you is relevant to their vulnerability.
You do not have any chance of having the caution removed. As bednobs has pointed out, you accepted your guilt when you accepted the caution. The fact that you did not appreciate the consequences is irrelevant.
As far as the technicality of your guilt goes, assault does not have to involve physical contact. Section 39 encompasses both Common Assault and Assault by beating. This is defined as any act by which a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend immediate unlawful violence. For example, if you throw a bottle at somebody but miss, you will be guilty of assault as you will have caused your victim "to apprehend immediate unlawful violence ".
However, by your version of events you intentionally (not recklessly) pulled her arm and slapped it. Such contact was intentional and it was unlawful. Although of course the full details would determine the matter, from you brief description I would suggest that had you gone to court and pleaded not guilty you would have, in all probability been convicted at trial.
As far as the technicality of your guilt goes, assault does not have to involve physical contact. Section 39 encompasses both Common Assault and Assault by beating. This is defined as any act by which a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend immediate unlawful violence. For example, if you throw a bottle at somebody but miss, you will be guilty of assault as you will have caused your victim "to apprehend immediate unlawful violence ".
However, by your version of events you intentionally (not recklessly) pulled her arm and slapped it. Such contact was intentional and it was unlawful. Although of course the full details would determine the matter, from you brief description I would suggest that had you gone to court and pleaded not guilty you would have, in all probability been convicted at trial.
Dear bednobs, thanks for your reply.
To be honest, I was still emotional when I was in the police station.
When I was interviewed by a police, I was a bit alike taking him a friend and venting out my emotion. I was puzzled why my wife called the police, and tried figuring out the reason. After coming back home and talking to my wife, I realized that it must be the helpline people who called the police.
I deeply believe that my arrest and caution result from a series of emotional actions and mistakes. I deeply regret that.
As you may or may not know that, there is provision for exceptional case to be removed: appendix 2 of retention guidelines for nominal records on the police national computer. I am wondering whether what kinds of cases are considered as exceptional cases.
When you say "It's like going to court and pleading guilty - you are accepting all the consequences that brings". Does it mean if I want my caution to be removed, I have to go to court?
Regarding the immigration rules, it is immigration rule --paragraph 322(1C,iv).
you can find it from the link
http://
There are the immigration rules, not law. UK immigration rules always apply retrospectively.
I applied for a position of mentor. I have to get CRB check. Because the caution, I need to get references from others. Later on I found that my two apprentices are taller than me.
To be honest, I was still emotional when I was in the police station.
When I was interviewed by a police, I was a bit alike taking him a friend and venting out my emotion. I was puzzled why my wife called the police, and tried figuring out the reason. After coming back home and talking to my wife, I realized that it must be the helpline people who called the police.
I deeply believe that my arrest and caution result from a series of emotional actions and mistakes. I deeply regret that.
As you may or may not know that, there is provision for exceptional case to be removed: appendix 2 of retention guidelines for nominal records on the police national computer. I am wondering whether what kinds of cases are considered as exceptional cases.
When you say "It's like going to court and pleading guilty - you are accepting all the consequences that brings". Does it mean if I want my caution to be removed, I have to go to court?
Regarding the immigration rules, it is immigration rule --paragraph 322(1C,iv).
you can find it from the link
http://
There are the immigration rules, not law. UK immigration rules always apply retrospectively.
I applied for a position of mentor. I have to get CRB check. Because the caution, I need to get references from others. Later on I found that my two apprentices are taller than me.
Dear New Judge
Many thanks for your reply.
As you said, "any act by which a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend immediate unlawful violence. "
My action was not intended to cause my wife to apprehend immediate unlawful violence. My intention was to pull her arm away, so that I could get out.
Of course she resisted and I had a struggle including a slap with her. Eventually I could not get her away. At that time, I held my daughter on my arm. Otherwise, I would hold my wife and put her in another room.
Many thanks for your reply.
As you said, "any act by which a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend immediate unlawful violence. "
My action was not intended to cause my wife to apprehend immediate unlawful violence. My intention was to pull her arm away, so that I could get out.
Of course she resisted and I had a struggle including a slap with her. Eventually I could not get her away. At that time, I held my daughter on my arm. Otherwise, I would hold my wife and put her in another room.
i still do not see the relevance of someone being taller than you. My friend's 10 year old daughter is 5 foot 3. Does that mean she is not "vulnerable" or only that she is vulnerable to people over 5 foot 3?
Anyway, i do not think you can demonstarte your arrest was unlawful or that no offence existed (re new judge's answer) so i have no doubt that your circumstances are not considered exceptional
Anyway, i do not think you can demonstarte your arrest was unlawful or that no offence existed (re new judge's answer) so i have no doubt that your circumstances are not considered exceptional
well in any case, there is nothing stopping you trying, even though by your account of things, it is bound to fail. After all you have nothing to lose by trying. It sounds like the kind of tiff people have all over the country every day, but just that the consequences are going to be exceptional for you, whereas most other people would probably just shrug it off and carry on. Having said that, my husband has never slapped me for any reason
I feel very sad. A simple caution affects our whole life. That's means my husband can't work here any more and he can't go through indefinite leave to remain (ILR) application. and furthermore my two kids have to leave this country soon. We have been married near 9 years and we have lived in UK earn 8 years . My two kids were born here. Both kids think UK is their hometown and their motherland. My little one has never been to my native country since she was born here. The simple caution interrupts our whole family life. I really realize that this simple caution is too hard to be accepted for my husband. If we can't go through with indefinite leave to remain (ILR) application due to my husband getting a simple caution.then it is very unfair to my husband and me and my kids. How sad and unfair for my kids and my kids have to leave UK soon due to their father getting a simple caution. We are very good people and we are always very nice to other people. Don't you think a simple caution is too harsh for my whole family?
Looking back at the details of our argument I deeply realize that my husband should not be given a simple caution. We had argument about some small things due to misunderstanding each other. We just didn't know how to communicate with each other. I think the case happened to many families. A couple quite often argues about small things. When they calm down they probably can't remember that what why them argue.
After that I have read the book that one of my friend strong recommend to read it. She told me that the case happens in many families. After I have read the book and have changed my temper and we both recognized that we still deeply love each other very much. We just didn't know how to communicate with each other. We have just lack of communication with each other. Now we both know how to express our feelings to each other and know how to communicate with each other. After that we did not argue again.
Now I have read immigration rules has changed from 13 December
2012.t is too difficult to accept this new
immigration rules for people who have getting a simple warning/caution
at first time in his life. I have known that they are a wide
variety of cautions in many different cases. Some of people have
got simple cautions in very seriously case in many times and some
of people only got a very mild simple warning at first time in
their life due to couples common argument. I don’t
understand why the new rules said that people who got the
non-custodial sentences have to refuse go thought with ILR why do
not depends on what sort caution case they have got? If the New
Rules refuse people who have got a very simple caution
(non-custodial) and affect his whole family have not to go thought
with ILR. How sad and unfair to his whole family? How sad to his
kids and have to leave this country without wrong due their father
only has got a simple warning. The children have not done any wrong
thing here!
Looking back at the details of our argument I deeply realize that my husband should not be given a simple caution. We had argument about some small things due to misunderstanding each other. We just didn't know how to communicate with each other. I think the case happened to many families. A couple quite often argues about small things. When they calm down they probably can't remember that what why them argue.
After that I have read the book that one of my friend strong recommend to read it. She told me that the case happens in many families. After I have read the book and have changed my temper and we both recognized that we still deeply love each other very much. We just didn't know how to communicate with each other. We have just lack of communication with each other. Now we both know how to express our feelings to each other and know how to communicate with each other. After that we did not argue again.
Now I have read immigration rules has changed from 13 December
2012.t is too difficult to accept this new
immigration rules for people who have getting a simple warning/caution
at first time in his life. I have known that they are a wide
variety of cautions in many different cases. Some of people have
got simple cautions in very seriously case in many times and some
of people only got a very mild simple warning at first time in
their life due to couples common argument. I don’t
understand why the new rules said that people who got the
non-custodial sentences have to refuse go thought with ILR why do
not depends on what sort caution case they have got? If the New
Rules refuse people who have got a very simple caution
(non-custodial) and affect his whole family have not to go thought
with ILR. How sad and unfair to his whole family? How sad to his
kids and have to leave this country without wrong due their father
only has got a simple warning. The children have not done any wrong
thing here!
it's really simple - there are plenty of people who want to enjoy the benefits of living in the UK who HAVEN'T broken the law, so naturally our government want to accept those people and refuse to accept people who can't live inside the law. While your "wife" presents a good argument, it doesn't really matter if we, the people who contribute to this website think it's unfair or not - we can't change immigration rules can we?
Waht country did you migrate from?
Waht country did you migrate from?
bednobs, may I not tell you where I am originally from?
I fully understand your point.
One point about the benefit things. I came to this country to study paying overseas fees (4 times of UK home students fee). Now I have children, none of them are claiming any benefit. The only benefit I can get enjoy is the free education and free medical care, which are also available from my native country.
Over my stay in UK, I have been to see a GP once.
I, compared with most UK citizens, have been probably contributing much more to this country's finance.
I fully understand your point.
One point about the benefit things. I came to this country to study paying overseas fees (4 times of UK home students fee). Now I have children, none of them are claiming any benefit. The only benefit I can get enjoy is the free education and free medical care, which are also available from my native country.
Over my stay in UK, I have been to see a GP once.
I, compared with most UK citizens, have been probably contributing much more to this country's finance.
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