Parking Ticket Issue.

[joko]

Parking ticket issue.

A few months ago I parked in a residential street at about 7.30pm.
The road had no markings whatsoever - no white lines or markings, no yellow lines or signs stating any parking rules - nothing - so obviously I thought it was fine.

I got back and found a ticket - so I took loads of pics of the road and appealed it (I could not send them the pics I took as the site would not allow it)

the appeal has been refused on the grounds that i didnt have a residents permit, and the area is a Residents Parking Zone, and according to the letter has signs at all roads that lead into it the road I was in, and apparently, in order for me to have got to that road, I MUST have passed t least one sign.
(The signs say Residents parking zone, and have a red circle with a line across and a blue background, and some times and days of validity)

It even states that I could have parked up to HALF A MILE away from the sign, or the perimeter of the zone, but its still in force...!

I did not recall seeing any - and I drove to that area every day for about a month - there was a main route I took, but there were other ways to get there.

so I have retraced my journey, on Google Maps - as well as a few other routes through the side streets and main streets etc - and I have found only ONE of those signs - just ONE!
And it was not on the route I generally took.

Had there been lots of them, at every corner leading into the zone, I would just pay the fine and accept that I should have realised that they applied at such a distance away - but, on principle I want to challenge this.

I cannot understand how they can realistically expect people to know that a sign half a mile away - that you haven't even passed - applies to a small street, that has no signs or markings at all.
The road has lots of roads leading off it.
And how are you supposed to know when the zone ends?

So my question is - is there a way to get a list of where these Residents Parking zones are?
Some way I can see where the perimeter lies and proof of where these signs are situated?

Obviously its possible I have missed a sign or two, but I followed the route quite carefully so I know there are certainly not many of them.

Thanks

[Buenchico]

As with speed limit signs (e.g. when entering an urban 20mph zone) you're expected to note a 'Controlled Zone' sign as you pass it
http://www.signsense.co.uk/images/whatwedo/HQ_controlled_zone.jpg
and remember that it remains in force until until you pass a sign telling you that you've reached the end of the zone
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/parking-zoneends.jpg
In some city centres there can be well over a mile (or even several miles) between those signs.

So, if the signs actually exist, you've clearly got no basis upon which to lodge an appeal. However you might well be able to successfully challenge the ticket if you can show that there was no sign at the entry to the Controlled Zone.

The relevant local authority's website may well have a map showing the limits of the zone but, since you've not mentioned where the problem occurred, I can't provide a link.

Chris

[Answerprancer]

I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I had parked in an area that had varous combinations of "permit holders only" "parking vouchers" and "pay at machine" all jumbled around.
I thought that where I'd parked was covered by a parking voucher so I bought one, scratched off the relevant bits and displayed it.
When I got back I had a PCN. The reason given for the PCN said that I had parked in an area for resident permit holders only. I checked around and right at the end of the close on one lamp post, there was indeed a resident permit holder sign. I thought 'hang on a minute' the *nearest* notice to where I had parked was in the adjacent street and that was a parking voucher sign. Now I'm a firm believer that the whole parking thing is deliberately complicated and is a huge revenue-collecting scam and I thought, these b*stards aren't having me, so I contested it. Initially they turned it down and the fine had doubled, so I went back there, took a photo and arrowed the position of my car and the position of the permit holders notice, printed it off and posted it with another letter and they accepted my counter claim.
So "Ppppppppppppppplp! to Richmond Borough Council!

[joko]

cheers chris and AP

i have found a sign on my route - 0.7 miles away ... over what they specified

its ridiculous that thats all they do to warn you ...

i have not seen any saying the zone ends ...

there are plenty of speed limit signs - the square ones that say 20.

[eastern]

I watched a programme on TV a while ago about people who contest these tickets and win because a lot of councils make silly errors when either painting signs on the road or sticking them up. I contested one for parking in a disabled bay because instead of having the written word "disabled" they had an outline of a wheel chair, that was wrong I won. As the guy on the TV prog said if it's not right it's not there.

[Answerprancer]

Lots of people fail to see the 'traps' because they are are too busy trying to get their kids to school so they end up getting trapped and ticketed. The local councils seize their opportunities and continue rake the money in.
Don't let these c*nts get away with it, park where you can and contest the tickets!

[Answerprancer]

These local council KNOW that most people won't bother to contest their PCNs and so long as people let this happen, the w*nkers will continue with their revenue thieving.

[Old_Geezer]

It sounds ridiculous, for sure. But it just goes to support my growing conviction that the authorities are not there to serve the public any more, but they see them as irrelevant, a source of funding at best. I have lost much trust in them over the years. Demanding you see a sign when you are not obviously looking for one, is just one trick they seem to have up their sleeve to oppress the masses. Unreasonable laws passed and then used to justify wrongdoing. I don't know if this sort of thing has always gone on and I wasn't aware of it as a youngster, but I feel this is no longer the country I knew, or thought I knew.

[whiskeryron]

Do the AA & RAC represent their members in legal disputes ? If not isn't it time we had a sort of union that we motorists could subscribe to who would take up the challenges with councils on our behalf ?