National Speed Limit -V- 60mph signs

[Bonzo 2000]

I am curious about why national speed limit signs are sometimes used, but 60mph signs are used elsewhere.  I have always assumed that a 60 sign is used where the road is designed to safely take traffic at 60, whereas the national limit sign (also referring to 60mph) was used where 60 is the limit, but the road may not be safe for that speed, eg windy country roads.  However, sometimes the national speed limit sign also appears on dual carriageways.  Can anyone cast any light on the difference between the signs and their uses?

[Oneeyedvic]

There should not be a 60 in a circle - it is very deceptive.

Don't forget, that national speed limit varies for different vehicles. ie on a single 'a' road, national speed limit for cars is 60mph, but for a HGV it would be 40mph. If a 60 in a circle is inidcated, I am not sure that the police could enforce a fine on a 'speeding' hgv.

Or (thinking about it whilst writing) maybe that is why the 60 in a circle has been introduced, to let hgvs go faster where condiotions are suitable.

[rjkh]

I may very well be talking nonsense here, but I was always under the impression that the sign we now accept as meaning "national speed limit applies" used to mean "no speed limit applies."

And that when it was decided that this was no longer safe, it was easier to keep the old signs and give them a new meaning than to rip them all down and replace them.

This was something my dad told me when I was wee though so may be rubbish!

[Loosehead]

You will only see the 60 in a red circle on a dual carraigeway, where the limit is 70 normally. The national speed limit sign is still valid and it is not being replaced, neither is the 60 anything to do with HGV, they have there own limits usually with an on board limiter. There are plenty of dual carraige ways with limits lower than 70 and they are marked accordingly, usually they are 50 or slower, 60 is relatively rare but I have seen it on a number of occasions.

[dilligaf]

RJKH (or his dad) struck the nail on the head. Many years ago a black diagonal bar on a white background meant "end of speed limit." Hard to believe these days. Rather than go through the expence of changing all the signs the Highway Code was amended so the signs now mean "National Speed Limit" ie. 60 or 70 for the car driver. PSV and LGV all know their own limitations.
There was an occasion some years ago, it may be when petrol was on ration due to the Suez crisis, the government decided to reduce the speed limit. The black bar then denoted a 50mph limit. Again without the cost of having to replace thousands of signs.

[Loosehead]

Not true, you will only find a 60 limit sign with a red circle around it on a dual carrage way that is not a motor way. I will eat humble pie if someone shows me a picture of one not on a dual carraige way. The national limit sign has always meant national limit it's just that there was a time when the national limit was no limit.

[Paul22118]

There are bits of truth in most of these posted answers.

1.  The National speed limit sign means for vehicles with no individual restriction, 60 on single carriageways and 70 on dual carriageways and motorways.

2.  The statutory speed limits of less than the maximum anywhere i.e. 70 apply and supercede all others e.g. when it is 30 shown everyone must stick to max of 30.

3.  When a stat speed exceeds the max vehicle limit e.g. 50 mph limit on single carriageway still means an HGV is  stuck with 40.

4.  The black bar on white circle is a sign always used in conjuction with stat limits e.g. 30 limit brought in by 1935 RTAct, but always signified the upper limit and that was indeed limitless untill 70 was introduced.

Basically it matters what road you are on ......Motorway/dual carriageway/single carriageway...then what you are driving car/light goods/ heavy goods/coach and so on and finally accepting that some vehicles are themselves limited to maximum speeds - what the speed limit is applicable to that piece of road.

That is why we are stuck with heavies having to keep to 40mph on a main trunk road even when nat limit applies.  Incidentally the single carriageway does not have to be an a road.  A nat speed limit on a country lane is 60!

[c00ky83]

Since when did HGVs have a 40 limit in a NSL?  Does that include buses?  I've only noticed them going slower up hills.

[JudgeJ]

Goods vehicles of more than 7.5 tons are limited to 40 mph on single carriageway roads where the national speed limit applies (that is, where cars are limited to 60mph).

[JustLightning]

The National Speed Limit is 60mph on single carriageways and 70mph on dual carriageways (for cars). If the speed limit on a dual carriageway was 60mph this would be represented by a circular sign displaying 60.

[JustLightning]

The National Speed Limit is 60mph on single carriageways and 70mph on dual carriageways (for cars). If the speed limit on a dual carriageway was 60mph this would be represented by a circular sign displaying 60.