Hadrian's Wall, Offa's Dyke - did they work?

[flobbergob]

Did these epic constructions actually keep the foreigners out of England? Even at its best preserved, you could just walk over Offa's Dyke and shinning over Hadrian's Wall would hardly present a problem to an inebriated hairy Scottie.

You can't patrol hundreds of miles, so did they work?

Judging by Corby, obviously not.

[TheUnderTow]

It's worth noting that at the time they were built (Hadrian's Wall in particular) the landscape was very different and, while the wall itself may now have reduced, it was an imposing structure on raised land. In addition, the scale of the structure has diminished over time.

It's also true, however, that the actual security of the wall was only part of its importance. The political significance was also key, as a boundary of the Roman Empire between the "sophisticated society" south of the wall and the "barbaric society" to the north.

[R1Geezer]

In the case of Hadrians wall, it may well be possible to climb over, that's why they had loads of soldiers guarding it. Bit more difficult to climb with a pilum up yer jaxy!

[Gromit]

Hadrians Wall was built by the foreigners, the Roman's. It was meant to keep the foreigners safe in England from the indigenous population who they had invaded.

[anotheoldgit]

It was meant to keep the foreigners safe in England from the indigenous population who they had invaded.

Something like today's Race Relations act then Gromit?

[DaisyMae]

No one really knows why Offa's Dyke was built or if it succeeded in fulfilling its purpose.

[Gromit]

anotheoldgit

I am sorry to read you think we have been invaded by foreigners and that for the last forty years, the Race Relations Act has facilitated this invasion.

[Hotlardlife]

How can anyone think we have not been invaded by foreigners - unless you live in some tiny hamlet somewhere, even then you must see the news - occasionally and aweek late maybe.

[Gromit]

Hotlardlife

Depends how you define 'invasion'.

7.53% of the UK population was born abroad. Of those living here, the largest number of non UK birthplaces was the Republic of Ireland with 498,850 persons.

[anotheoldgit]

My answer was a little 'tongue in the cheek' Gromit, but since you have took it more seriously let me explain.

The word invaded does not necessarily mean taken by force, and that I never said "the Race Relation's Act has facilitated this invasion".

What I did infer was that, the 'Race Relation's Act' was meant to keep the foreigners safe in England from the indigenous population who they had invaded.

Very different from "the Race Relation's Act has facilitated this invasion".

But then why not bend the truth a little, if it helps to fit in with one's agenda? According to you and others the Daily Mail does this all the time.

[Gromit]

Thank you for the clarification AOG,

I am sorry to read that you think the 'Race Relation's Act' was meant to keep the foreigners safe in England from the indigenous population who they had invaded.

[anotheoldgit]

Two areas of Britain have more black people and Asians than white people for the first time ever, newly-released results of the 2001 census for England and Wales have revealed.

White people made up 39.4% of the population in Newham, east London, and 45.3% in Brent, north west London, according to the latest figures of the �200m survey.

If you lived in Newham or Brent, I think even looking through those 'rose tinted specs' of yours Gromit, you would have to admit that you had been invaded.

==========================================
A few more interesting figures

The biggest influx was from the New Commonwealth - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka - with more than 200,000 migrants.

In 2006, 510,000 foreign migrants came to the UK

A raft of statistics released by Whitehall revealed 164,635 foreign nationals were granted UK passports in 2007 - the equivalent of one every three minutes.

[Gromit]

Of course there will be clusters of immigrants.

I could post about boroughs that are 99% British. That too is a cluster and exceptional. The national figure, the one that matters is 7.59% (at the last census).

Are you just concerned about dusky faced immigrants as your example was about black and Asians? As previously stated, the largest ethnic group not born on these shores are from the republic of Ireland. But they have white faces don't they.

[anotheoldgit]

Race Relations Act

The Race Relations Act 1976, as amended by the Race Relations (Amendment) Act (RRAA) 2000, makes it unlawful to discriminate against anyone on the grounds of race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origin

Please explain otherwise, if it was not introduced to protect (make safe) foreigners against the indiginous population of this country?

[Gromit]

The RRA is not to protect against the indigenous population of this country, it is to protect against unfair discrimination.

Obviously, if one section of society is treated badly because they have a dusky face, then that hampers us harmoniously living side by side.

[Lil O'lady]

How did this simple question get hijacked into a rant?

As the first (sanest) reply indicates, these were both likelier to be symbols of power and of deliniation rather than Berlin Wall/Checkpoint Charlie structures.

We know less about Offa's Dyke's construction than of Hadrian's wall, but it is noticeable that the latter's construction enabled some bored legions, and their commanders , to be kept very busy building walls rather than plotting insurrection. Hadrian's wall also channelled the bulk movement of goods through a series of watched gatehouses, enabling the Romans to levy import / export duties.

Similar spectacular, rather than practical, boundaries existed in the eastern empire and in central Europe.

[anotheoldgit]

Because it is so boring, much better posting this for Gromit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-113007 7/The-schools-NO-pupils-speak-English-language .html

[Gromit]

Well done AOG - Another cluster.

[TCL-MUMPING]

Was Hadrian's Wall not built by foreigners?