School Holiday

[dizmouk2009]

Greetings,
Before I ask my question I'd like to just let anyone reading it know that it isn't my holiday (so some information my be missing and I'm completely unaware of school policy).

If a student pays their deposit, and some extra money (lets say for example £200) to go on a skiing holiday then decideds they don't wish to go on the holiday anymore are they entitled the £200 back? I'm aware that alot of information is lacking, I've only just received the cry for help via text message at 3am in the morning. They, and I understand that the deposit isn't going to be refunded but should the £200 be paid back to them?

Until I can get anymore information I'm going to leave this thread in ChatterBank, I don't think I can pick any legal minds with the information I have. Anyone had any past experience with schools (this person is 16 years old) being greedy with cancellation holidays?

Thanks in advance,
Diz.

[dizmouk2009]

New Info: No letter or information were given out to the students: A person (teacher) gave verbal instructions to 'pay £XXX deposits to the school to ensure a place, then £XXX afterwards'.

No terms of conditions available to read by the parent.

[Buenchico]

(2-part post):

I've run quite a few school trips in my time (and I've also answered plenty of questions, here on AB, about contract law), so here's my opinion;

Let's ignore the 'extra £200' for the moment. By paying the deposit, the parent (or guardian) of the student has entered into a contract to pay the FULL amount of the holiday. In return for that payment, his/her son/daughter will be entitled to go on the holiday.

If the parent decides not to exercise his rights under the contract (i.e. to send his/her son/daughter on the holiday) the contract still exists and the school can still exercise their right to enforce their side of the contract. (It's the same as if you buy a theatre ticket and decide not to see the show. The theatre is under no obligation to provide a refund).

[Buenchico]

(Make that 3 parts!)

In practice a school will probably refund anything which doesn't result in a loss to them. For example I've been in the situation where a school trip required a minimum of 32 students for it to be financially viable. (The company it was organised through charged far less, per student, for 32 or more students than it did for smaller groups). I had exactly 32 deposits paid (and nobody else interested) but then one parent said that his son would not be travelling. I was faced with the position of attempting to get large additional payments from the parents of the other 31 students, cancelling the trip altogether, or demanding that the parent of non-travelling student meet his contractual obligation to pay for that student's holiday (even though the student wasn't travelling). I would have been within my rights to charge that parent every single penny that the travel company required, in order to keep the payments from other parents to the agreed amount. The only 'discount' that the parent would have received would have been for the additional items (such as theme park admissions) which weren't part of the package booked through the travel company.

[Buenchico]

I got round the problem by paying, from my own pocket, for a student place on the trip and taking my young cousin with us. My choice of actions meant that the parent of the non-travelling student received a full refund (including his initial deposit) but otherwise, had it had been necessary, the school could have taken legal action to get much more money from the parent.

It's impossible to give a precise answer to the situation you describe, because we don't know what the school's contractual obligations are. They will almost certainly have booked the holiday through one of the travel companies which specialise in schools' travel. They will probably refund anything which they can get back from that company but, equally, they will probably also demand additional payment for any losses which they might suffer.

Chris

[tamborine]

Teachers I know, collect in numbers and book accordingly. The fair approach would be for a replacement to be found to sell the ticket to......at a reduced rate, to gain more interest?

[dizmouk2009]

Thanks for the info Buenchico and tamborine. I know it's impossible to give a defininative answer, it's every harder because I don't, and never have attended the school so I can't even speak from experience of their policies. Most school refund everything except the deposit (like you said, if able to do so without cost). Even though I've never attended this school I am aware that they are 'money grabbing bas**rds' so I'd believe that they would keep all the money even if they haven't even booked the holidays yet. As far as I know the holiday is 8 months away and this particular student paid the deposit and extra rather quickly so I'm going to take a guess (and unfortuanatly it's only a guess) that they haven't actually booked anything yet. The parents of the student don't have money issues, it's just their daughter, she's a spoilts bi**h !. Obviously she's 'thrown the dummy out' and now doesn't want to go.

[dizmouk2009]

I know that the schools took the extra money before the deadline for the deposit had come up. So they can't possibly of known how many people were going...

[S_C]

that being the case you may find , given a couple of days this person may change their mind and decide they want to go again.

if a cut of date for the agreement was stated and has passed then what Buenchico has stated still would apply.
with such a large number of students all wanting the same deal i would imagine the cut of date would be at max 2/3 days max prior to any deposit being placed with a holiday firm, as such a large party would be hard to catter for last minuet.

[dizmouk2009]

When I last went on a school holiday (well over 10 years ago) I paid a deposit of £50. The holiday was announced on the 1st of Jan, and the final deadline for deposits were the 31st of Jan. The school took the deposits THEN they booked the holidays. The only difference is my school actually sent out a letter saying that deposits would not be refunded unless there was not enough people to go on the trip/holiday. If I payed £200 cash on the 2nd of Jan then technically the school haven't even spent it yet. Her family aren't short of cash and I believe (I will find out more information later on today) they paid alot of money before the deposit deadline was even up.

[dizmouk2009]

I understand there are many ways of schools booking trips/holidays. They either take deposits then book or, book for say 30 people and it's first come first served. For trips abroad it's usually first come first served because like you have both commented - they take time to organise and can't be done last minute. However, my school was different. I suppose until I can get some more information there isn't much, apart from rambling on, that I can do. :)

Thanks for your input, I will keep you informed.

Diz,

[S_C]

i know what your saying , it all depends on timing and how well organised the trip organiser is i guess.
which ever way it turns out good luck with this one.

[dizmouk2009]

NEW INFO:

The deposit (£110) is non refundable (verbal not written). I have spoken to her and she has informed me that the school has someone else to go in her place yet the school are still refusing to refund the extra £210 they have paid towards the holiday. Personally I'd advise them to send the school a very firm and nasty but, non incriminating letter.

Anyone else have any ideas on the matter at hand? I'd personally like to go down there and slap some faces and bust some balls - but I can't do that!

[cherrychapstick]

i think a letter to school would be a good idea as if someone else has took the persons place they will also be paying for it so the school is not going to lose anything through this and a full refund should be given ,my daughter has paid her deposit for her trip in march although we were hoping to be moved house by then and the school said they would get my money back,so the school is just being awkward ,if they don't budge on this then tell them to seek legal advice which is free for the 1st session which could be enough to let the school realize they are in the wrong

Cherry x