Global warming

[sandmaster]

We are now all used to dire warnings about the effects of global warming. Undoubtedly man's efforts have contributed but there is ample evidence that sea levels have been much higher in the past. We are working to correct global warming, but what safeguards can we put in place to protect against a new ice age - which would mean much of northern Europe, including the U.K. would become uninhabitable. Shifts in global temperatures can happen very quickly - have our scientists considered all the options?

[New Judge]

...what safeguards can we put in place to protect against a new ice age - which would mean much of northern Europe,

None whatsoever.

...have our scientists considered all the options?

I doubt it. But it would not matter if they had.

However, whether "global warming" or "climate change" or whatever you want to call it exists, and whether it is caused principally by human activity (which I very much doubt) there is little that can be done about it.

The first heretic in these matter was King Knud. He was correct when he demonstrated that man cannot rule nature. Modern day heretics in these matters (amongst whom I count myself) should tell doubters to learn from his wisdom.

Personally, after the summer we've just had, I can't wait for Global Warming to kick in.

[Teddio]

In the recent past Northern Britain was covered with an ice sheet many thousands of feet thick. The UK is on the same latitude as Labrador, and that's largely arctic tundra. Climate is dynamic. Given a choice I'd go for the Global Warming option every time: at least then we wouldn't become refugees.

[brachiopod]

Anyone who thinks global warming is a good thing " 'cos it means we'll have a warm climate like where I goes for my holidays, innit" is sadly misguided - especially if you live in the British Isles.

[New Judge]

Why?

[brachiopod]

It is true that there have been "Ice Ages" before (whether you are talking about the last glaciation that ended around 10,000 years ago, or the "mini Ice Age"s that allowed for Frost Fairs on the Thames etc.) and these will always continue, as they are part of a natural cycle (that, for simplicity, I will not go into here).

However, although levels of Carbon dioxide and particulates have been higher at some point in Earth's history - they have not been such in human history.

So, irrespective of whether we are in a natural cycle of Earth cooling / warming, then Man's activities are certainly masking this.

The particulates we put into the atmosphere are perhaps slowing the true extent to which the Earth is warming by reducing insolation (look it up).

And as for the "Well, at least my summers will be warmer" brigade - then think again;
The vast majority of Earth's heat budget is circulated by ocean currents - so if the North Polar ice starts to melt, then the melting cold water will sink nicely into the Greenland and Barents Seas knocking out the North Atlantic Drift (N.A.D.)
This is the tail end of the Gulf Stream - the ocean current that brings nice warm water from the South up to our latitudes and means that despite (as Teddio says) being the same latitude as Labrador, and also Moscow - we presently don't have the same sub-zero Winter temperatures as those places.

Replace the N.A.D. with a nice, cold Arctic current though, and we can expect to feeze our proverbials off for most of the year.

Still, if that's what you want, New Judge, you wear your bathers, I'll wear me thermals and we'll meet for apres ski on the South Downs. ok?

[jake-the-peg]

When I was a professional scientist the very cleverset people I knew were climate scientists.

It is a perpetual source of wonder to me that so many people who's understanding of these things comes from a couple of documentries and a load of press articles think that these climate scientists have missed the obvious.

I'd love to know why New Judge thinks he knows better than all these people he must be very well read in the literature - Surely he wouldn't be misled by a discredited documentry and a few Telegraph articles.

Wow do you think someone should point out to them there are cycles? - I'm sure they'd be amazed!

I remember the "New Ice age " stuff too

It came entirely from a couple of researchers and was picked up by the press - This is somewhat different. It's endorsed by pretty much every major scientific establishment in the world.

Even President Bush now say's man made Global Warming is a problem!

Can we do something about it? - maybe - the Ozone hole is closing after all

Will we? - I doubt it a lot of damage is already done and most rich countries are not in the front line.and it's much more expensive than the Ozone hole.

[bustergutt]

Before the Governments make you believe that the Earth is warming up (I don`t think that`s true for one minute) and we all must feel guilty about our part in it . Also that we must pay green taxes to ease our guilt and that the so called Global warming is all our fault please take a look at this! Then perhaps WE must really start asking questions?

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pandora/ haarp.html

[New Judge]

Thanks for the science lessons, boys.

Of course I do not know better than your scientist colleagues, jake. But I do know this: since I have been around I have been told (among many other things):

-That grapes will grow on the N Yorks moors
-That I should dig up my tomatoes and plant cacti
-That (upon the discovery of gas in the North Sea) that domestic gas will be �virtually free� and subject to just a small administration charge.
-Vast numbers of heterosexual people in Western Europe will die of AIDS
-That England will again win the football world cup
-That vast numbers of people in Europe will die of �Bird �flu
-That the ozone layer is depleting rapidly and we will all be subject to greater �insolation� (no, I didn�t need to look it up).

Most of these statements have been made by experts in good faith and have usually been the result of their intensive studies. Most of these involve the extrapolation of small variations to theoretically possible but practically highly improbable but nonetheless alarming levels.

None of them have thus far proved remotely true.

Usually I simply read these forecasts, have a chuckle and dismiss them as the musings of academics who revel in such matters.

With the Global Warming issue (aka �Climate Change� since it was discovered it�s not actually getting any warmer) it is a little different. Unfortunately the research experts have managed to gain the ear of a few influential souls (influential in that they have the power to raise taxes). These, people, having exhausted all the conventional excuses for raising revenue, see these latest revelations as an ideal opportunity to con the taxpayer into believing that by paying more money they will �save the planet�.

[Cont�d]

[New Judge]

I�ll not prolong this argument as none of us will live long enough to be proved right or wrong � we will all almost certainly die of causes entirely unrelated to Climate Change. When I find somebody to explain to me how, when mankind is responsible for only 4% of all carbon emissions, cutting them in half (or even entirely) will make a significant difference to any changes that are taking place. And when I find somebody to explain how it is acceptable for government representatives to travel all over the world to discuss this �crisis� but I cannot continue to use tungsten light bulbs. And so on and so on. Then I might take it seriously.

Until then I�ll remain my old sceptical unconvinced self and moan that I (along with millions of others) are being taken for a ride.

Of course changes to the Earth�s climate are taking place. They always have and always will. But for man to suggest that he can do anything about it is almost as arrogant as brachiopod�s suggestion that I have to look up the meaning of a word just because it contains more than four letters.

[weggiewabbit]

New Judge, what a reply! All of what you said rings true with me.