Intestate.

[Khandro]

When a person dies intestate and no immediate family is known and a genealogist finds the nearest relative and also two more distant relatives, who or by what process is the dividing up of the estate made between these three please?

[jomifl]

The closest relative gets everything, just as as surviving spouse gets everything and the children get nothing.

[woofgang]

all here
https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

[ubasses]

ww.hdconsultants.net/_webedit/uploaded-files/All%20Files/brokercentre-documents/Rules-Of-Intestacy_leaflet_October-2014.pdf

The above is a flow chart for intestacy. Read the 'please note' on the left ie: if you get right down to the aunts and uncles and they are all deceased you work down through their children.

[ubasses]

sorry will try link again.

http://www.hdconsultants.net/_webedit/uploaded-files/All%20Files/brokercentre-documents/Rules-Of-Intestacy_leaflet_October-2014.pdf

[Khandro]

Early on in this process (which is now coming to a close after 2 years), being the main beneficiary and without realizing just how much the estate would be, I made a suggestion to the acting lawyer as to how it might be divided 4 ways between the two more distant relatives and there is also a civil partner.
It now turns out to be a much more substantial sum than I first thought, so I'm now wondering how binding my now perhaps too generous first suggestion of me taking a half, and the other half split between the other 3 is.

[Khandro]

looking at woof's thread I don't think it was an official 'civil partner'.

[woofgang]

khandro, you can't actually do that without enacting a deed of variation. The law is the law whatever beneficiaries want to do

[Khandro]

The estate is in the form of shares and bank savings, both have now been released (after enormous palaver) in my name and are held now by the acting solicitor. So will it be up to the solicitor to now apportion the funds even though they are in my name?
The problem is, I'm not certain as to the status of these other two, though I know I am considered to be the first in line as it were, maybe that is because of my age? we may be all of equal and distant status.

[ubasses]

Age will not come into it, you really need to ask the Solicitor, who will have followed the law, if the other parties have a Right to any share and explain how. As Woofgang said if you are the only direct heir, you will have to sign a Deed of Variation before the Solicitor can pass on any of the Estate.

If you put your Instructions in writing to divide the Estate, he will complete the Administration and then act on your written instructions. You may still have time to revoke these.

If you know how they were related to the deceased you will probably be able to work it out from the flow chart.

[Peter Pedant]

The rules of intestacy are pretty well known and straightforward
see above

Basically you are saying you think there are other entitled heirs but you dont know how many or what degree of entitlement
we cant tell you that - you have to ask the solicitor

As there is no will and therefore no executors the law allows anyone entitled to apply for a grant of administration ( the same as probate in a will ) and this MAY be the reason why it is all in your name - the lawyer may have applied in your name ( or not - you will have to ask ) - and the law says then you are holding it in trust for the entitled beneficiaries


If there are others entitled - they will be writing I can tell you to the lawyer and saying I want my share now! and NOT what Khandro thinks may be fair .....

For a widow who inherited an intestate husbands estate in its entirety
the children were squawking about having no portion
I advised her to take the whole lot and then give the children without a deed of variation various portions and pay outs as she wanted along with a letter - if you dont like it you can sod off. I dont know if she did. SHe did confirm that they were wandering around with calculators saying things like Ermintrude has 42% and I only have 25.5% and THAT's not fair .....

but of course they ( those kids) werent entitled in law ( widow got all as it was less than £250 000 )

If they are anything like my grasping relations they will demand their lawful share EVEN if they could get a better deal by negotiation

Good luck and enjoy a toast to your rich old relation .....

[Khandro]

PP; // this MAY be the reason why it is all in your name - the lawyer may have applied in your name ( or not - you will have to ask ) - and the law says then you are holding it in trust for the entitled beneficiaries //

I think this may well be the case, next week I will talk to the solicitor, but I ask because i would like to know where I stand if possible beforehand. When the notification of the proceeds of the sale of shares came today (the weekend!) from the brokers, I was surprised that it was considerably more than I had anticipated.
Incidentally, I know it sounds like something out of a Dickens novel, but she was someone who died several years ago and of whom I never even knew existed.

[bednobs]

wht a lovely position to be in - someone you don't know dies and leaves you wodge :)

[Peter Pedant]

My fambly tree has been used to trace heirs

I had to hold up my hands and say not me ... but lucky ...Pedrino Pedant ( not of this address )

Earliest will I can trace was proven in 1869 for a forebear Peter Paul Pedant born 1786

clearly in my fambly's case "I have and I hold and I bliddy well will give it to those I specify ....."

[Peter Pedant]

and the market has been rising .... so no loss

Your solicitor will cover the tax position if any
the probate ( oops! ) value will be on the day of her death
and then once distribution has been settled ( erk !) the rise from the day of her death to distribution is each lucky beneficiary's capital gain and has to be declared on that

Hey I should be charging for advice such as this !

anyway enjoy and honour the old lady's money .....

[Khandro]

PP. //the probate ( oops! ) value will be on the day of her death//

She died in 2006, what are the implications in that please?

Though the shares were sold last week at the going rate. The bank savings were also recently released, but I suppose with the low interest rates since the crash plus inflation, the proceeds would have less worth now than then?

[woofgang]

On the day she died, the share value marker was set. You can google "historic share value 2006" with the name of the share and that will probably take you to the page giving the info that you need (I had to do this for shares I inherited) The difference between that historic price and what the shares were sold for is the taxable element.

[Peter Pedant]

// The difference between that historic price and what the shares were sold for is the taxable element.//

for IHT purposes

2006-2015 if the shares have risen and been sold then there may be a capital gains charge ( first £10k of the GAIN is tax free remember )
which each beneficiary has to pay

blimey 11 y to find heirs

[woofgang]

yes PP in this case for IHT purposes but if you inherit shares and keep the shares then its the same for capital gains tax calculations.