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Will People On Both Sides Of The Border Who Want Scottish Independence Vote To Leave The Eu?
If I was one of them I would, as a second referendum on independence for Scotland would be inevitable if the UK voted to leave the EU.
Besides Scotland would have to, however briefly, leave the EU anyway if they became an independent country.
Besides Scotland would have to, however briefly, leave the EU anyway if they became an independent country.
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If you were a supporter of Scottish independence you are likely to want a further referendum every time there was an R in the month as you won't have got your way yet. The decision to remain part of the UK having been decided I see no reason to visit the issue again for many decades. As the UK all members must accept UK decisions and not go making demands for UKExit every time a UK decision is made.
People who want independence in Scotland want independence from the UK. But most apparently would prefer to be in a Scotland that was in the EU.
They might feel they were being forced out of the EU by people with whom they already feel they have little in common politically,
I'm not sure why so many people find that a difficult idea to grasp.
They might feel they were being forced out of the EU by people with whom they already feel they have little in common politically,
I'm not sure why so many people find that a difficult idea to grasp.
It might be irrelevant to you but that really makes my point. These are all potential consequences of a NO vote, along almost certainly with increased tensions in N Ireland as the growing Nationalist minority may feel even more affinity with the Republic
With the last opinion poll I saw giving the Nos only a one point lead tho even at this time of great turmoil in Europe I'm not sure it will come to that
With the last opinion poll I saw giving the Nos only a one point lead tho even at this time of great turmoil in Europe I'm not sure it will come to that
UK votes for independence from the EU
So Sturgeon decides the Scots must vote 'again' to gain independence from the UK
Sturgeon then decides on behalf of the Scottish people to be ruled by the EU
Is that how it will work?
Have Sturgeon and Salmond actually run it past the Scottish public as to whether or not they want to stay in Europe if the UK votes to leave?
Some polls suggest that Scots will vote to leave the EU. If they do but overall the UK decides to stay ... will she want a ..................
So Sturgeon decides the Scots must vote 'again' to gain independence from the UK
Sturgeon then decides on behalf of the Scottish people to be ruled by the EU
Is that how it will work?
Have Sturgeon and Salmond actually run it past the Scottish public as to whether or not they want to stay in Europe if the UK votes to leave?
Some polls suggest that Scots will vote to leave the EU. If they do but overall the UK decides to stay ... will she want a ..................
I'm not saying it is just irrelevant to me, but that it is irrelevant to anyone in the UK that believes in democracy rather than always getting their own way.
The same argument of discontent could be used at each city level where the majority disagree with the national decisions. Should they split ?
Discontent is difficult to contain if the discontented don't accept the decision of the majority of the community. What they should do is persuade others of their views within the UK, rather than insist the area they're in must leave in the hope of getting a majority for their views already.
The same argument of discontent could be used at each city level where the majority disagree with the national decisions. Should they split ?
Discontent is difficult to contain if the discontented don't accept the decision of the majority of the community. What they should do is persuade others of their views within the UK, rather than insist the area they're in must leave in the hope of getting a majority for their views already.
"People who want independence in Scotland want independence from the UK. But most apparently would prefer to be in a Scotland that was in the EU."
they dont want to be ruled from Westminster but are happy to be ruled by the eussr...hahaha...in other words they hate the english.....
or is it the eussr billions they want (theyre finished without it)...either way, if we stay in we are doling out wonga to them..
they dont want to be ruled from Westminster but are happy to be ruled by the eussr...hahaha...in other words they hate the english.....
or is it the eussr billions they want (theyre finished without it)...either way, if we stay in we are doling out wonga to them..
It's an issue because Scotland in a country with its own parliament and already feels out of syncs even with the Labour Party in the rest of the U.K.
The last poll I saw showed about a 15% majority for staying
So it could well be an issue.
Of course even if there was another referendum there is no guarantee it would not be the same result as before and if they seemed likely it is hard to see there bang much appetite for one
But who knows
The last poll I saw showed about a 15% majority for staying
So it could well be an issue.
Of course even if there was another referendum there is no guarantee it would not be the same result as before and if they seemed likely it is hard to see there bang much appetite for one
But who knows
As Scotland's First Minister has repeatedly said - though some English people find it hard to grasp for some reason - the SNP will not suggest a further independence referendum until it is clear that a change has occurred in one of two areas...
a. internal polling reveals that the percentages for/against independence have clearly altered in favour of that.
b. the actual situation of Scotland is materially altered by any decision of the UK government which is against Scotland's expressed will or to Scotland's detriment, such as membership or not of the EU.
Why people persist in claiming that there will be a "neverendum" is beyond me. One-track minds, I guess.
a. internal polling reveals that the percentages for/against independence have clearly altered in favour of that.
b. the actual situation of Scotland is materially altered by any decision of the UK government which is against Scotland's expressed will or to Scotland's detriment, such as membership or not of the EU.
Why people persist in claiming that there will be a "neverendum" is beyond me. One-track minds, I guess.
I think QM is suggesting that the parameters whereby a future referendum would be held post an EU referendum (or even disregarding that) have been clearly laid out.
I certainly don't hold with the "neverendum" nonsense, but I happen to think that we simply don't know what the situation would be.
We thought, after all, that a firm "No" to independence would kill the question stone dead, and that hasn't happened. I can foresee a situation, if there was a clear "Yes" to the EU in Scotland and a "No" elsewhere, where the independence lobby would become more powerful and then who would Nicola Sturgeon be, as she would not be slow to remind us, to stand in the way of the wishes of the people :-)
I certainly don't hold with the "neverendum" nonsense, but I happen to think that we simply don't know what the situation would be.
We thought, after all, that a firm "No" to independence would kill the question stone dead, and that hasn't happened. I can foresee a situation, if there was a clear "Yes" to the EU in Scotland and a "No" elsewhere, where the independence lobby would become more powerful and then who would Nicola Sturgeon be, as she would not be slow to remind us, to stand in the way of the wishes of the people :-)
I understand the post as being an explanation. That a call for the next referendum will be when the polls suggest it'll be won by those wanting independence, regardless whether most of the time folk feel the other way about things, AND they can claim they aren't getting their way in that part of the UK and getting the best their area could.
Basically just a, "we'll call for another vote when it looks winnable and will be never ending in looking for that point regardless how close it was to a previous vote we lost". Implied being that the vote to rejoin the UK would not be based on similar opposing conditions, which would not be monitored for. It's a case of a hundred no's and one yes means yes.
A bit like the EU voting strategy really.
As for abandoned statements, that's politics. You get the same every election with manifestos. And everyone must have been aware the, "you will be given special status, anything your heart desires regardless how unfair to the rest, is yours", promises were unlikely to be progressed. It was outrageous some of the things said anyway.
Basically just a, "we'll call for another vote when it looks winnable and will be never ending in looking for that point regardless how close it was to a previous vote we lost". Implied being that the vote to rejoin the UK would not be based on similar opposing conditions, which would not be monitored for. It's a case of a hundred no's and one yes means yes.
A bit like the EU voting strategy really.
As for abandoned statements, that's politics. You get the same every election with manifestos. And everyone must have been aware the, "you will be given special status, anything your heart desires regardless how unfair to the rest, is yours", promises were unlikely to be progressed. It was outrageous some of the things said anyway.
The question occurred to me as worth posting because I'm not sure anyone has thought about this already. It is surely a paradox such that a vote to leave the EU by someone who passionately believes in Scottish independence wherever they are in the UK would be the way to go even though Scotland wants to remain in or rejoin the EU as soon as possible following independence. Surely a major temptation to vote tactically.
In one of the speeches at the Conservative Party Conference a rather impressive Scottish lady delegate reminded the audience that a referendum that was only won by some 200,000 votes out of millions is hardly emphatic.
In one of the speeches at the Conservative Party Conference a rather impressive Scottish lady delegate reminded the audience that a referendum that was only won by some 200,000 votes out of millions is hardly emphatic.
A lot depends too on how important the "pledge" was to various people's decisions. Myself I don't think it was nearly as important as has been made out, and -- rather like my opinion that the 2015 General Election polls were wrong because they became a part of the story -- I suspect that a single poll showing a lead for the "Yes" campaign spurred the silent majority of No voters into bothering to turn up. I don't see that this majority will have gone away, or only been bought by a pledge, so I suspect that any future referenda are likely to go the same way.
It's likely to be a non-issue anyway, as despite the closeness of the polls I suspect that the "better the devil you know" principle is going to hold true once more.
It's likely to be a non-issue anyway, as despite the closeness of the polls I suspect that the "better the devil you know" principle is going to hold true once more.
I can't quite see how to make it much clearer, YMB, but I'll try.
Over time, it often becomes clear that the hopes/fears/ideas of any group of people have changed...eg football fans often fall out of love with their team's manager whom they adored at one time. The same may become clear as regards Scotland's electorate and independence.
In September 2014, those who wanted to remain part of the UK were a majority. The point is that might well change.
Secondly, if the EU referendum reveals that the electorates of England, Wales and NI wish to leave but the Scottish electorate does not, then that may be the time for a second independence referendum.
Over time, it often becomes clear that the hopes/fears/ideas of any group of people have changed...eg football fans often fall out of love with their team's manager whom they adored at one time. The same may become clear as regards Scotland's electorate and independence.
In September 2014, those who wanted to remain part of the UK were a majority. The point is that might well change.
Secondly, if the EU referendum reveals that the electorates of England, Wales and NI wish to leave but the Scottish electorate does not, then that may be the time for a second independence referendum.
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