Junior Doctors To Walk Out Of Accident And Emergency

[mushroom25]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35884239

if this results in deaths, who will have blood on their hands - the doctors for walking away, or Jeremy Hunt for causing the dispute?

[New Judge]

“…in order to ensure the NHS remains the envy of the Western world that we know it to be.”

Alas the NHS is not the envy of the western world (and it’s doubtful if it ever was, though that claim to fame must have receded from being likely long ago). The term is often bandied about by those who refuse to accept that, in its current form, it is not sustainable.

The UK currently ranks 15th in the league table of European health services. It ranks below (among others) France (1st), Italy (2), Andorra (4), Malta (5), Spain (6), Portugal (9), Greece (11) and Iceland (12). Noticeably all of those ranking above the UK have a percentage of public funding below that of the UK (some significantly so). In fact all those below the UK do as well and at 96.9% publicly funded the UK has the highest percentage of publicly funded healthcare in Europe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Europe

France, top of the league, only funds 76.9% of its healthcare from the public purse. Most other nations seem to have realised that the idealistic notion of funding virtually all healthcare from public funds is simply not possible. The reckless pursuit of that ideology has caused enormous problems for the NHS. Anybody who has had any experience of some other European healthcare services will realise that the NHS is not the “envy of the world”. It is not even the envy of Europe. It does some wonderful work. But it also provides some appalling levels of service. It must fundamentally change its model and move away from its “free at point of delivery” dogma if it is to provide a health service people of the UK deserve.

[jourdain2]

NJ - When we moved back here from France our Doctors expressed concern for us. In some ways they were right. We no longer feel in control. I cannot get osteopathic treatment (which I need regularly) on the NHS. I got a prescription for it in France. Mr. J2 had his heart checked yearly and every other year had a 'preuve d'effort' don't know what it is called in English but he had to cycle to the point of collapse. We've been here 1 year and nothing has been mentioned, we are going to have to push it - I'm psyching myself up to be unpopular.

Our surgery will close on Good Friday, the necessary nursing treatment will not be available, I'll see to OH's leg myself. This simply would not happen in France, nurses are there every day of the year. In other words, the service is definitely not first class. Possibly because it is overloaded, but there are other reasons.

In answer to OP, it's a difficult one. As a teacher I was forced into the same position. Don't know, now, if I was right to put the pupils first and not go on strike. But, here, LIVES (not a few days' education) are being put at risk - reluctantly I would have to point the finger at the Doctors.

[ChillDoubt]

I'd have to counter your argument with these NJ:

http://nhap.org/what-you-can-do/facts-fingertips/the-nhs-is-the-worlds-best-healthcare-system-based-on-figures-from-2011-13/

[ChillDoubt]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/uks-healthcare-ranked-the-best-out-of-11-western-countries-with-us-coming-last-9542833.html

Apologies for a double post, stupid tablet won't let me post more than one link per post.

[Postdog]

So some people think it is about pay. I suggest you check things out before commenting.

BTW, Jeremy Hunt.

[Peter Pedant]

Health questions%
Jeremy Hunt said that 50% had declined to apply for further training

so the striking doctors will soon be leaving doctors ( Oz adn NZ ) and we can go back to the days of Sqad when in the 60s 80% of juniors were foreign graduates ....

sarah woolaston's daughter
( who she ? chair of the health select cttee )
is one

[Peter Pedant]

lastest strike poor JerenyHunt has to spend his week end sorting it out

pussy footed around the next week that only some people were required to work a 7 day week and it certainly wasnt ministers !

[craft1948]

The doctors...my nephew was a junior doctor and now is extremely well paid especially for the hours he 'works'. Well as he's in A&E he doesn't exactly work all the hours he's paid for.

[ChillDoubt]

But I'm sure his expertise is invaluable when it comes to saving lives in jeopardy as a result of trauma etc, craft. You can't put a price on that and I'm sure he's studied incredibly hard to get where he is.

[Sqad]

\\\\But I'm sure his expertise is invaluable when it comes to saving lives in jeopardy as a result of trauma etc, craft.\\\

That's his bloody job.........that's what doctors do........and they get well paid for it when their training has finished.

[ChillDoubt]

Indeed it is Squad, but as already mentioned this isn't just about money, is it?
And I'm sure deep down you already knew that...

[jno]

No doubt the doctors will be shocked to be accused of having bloom their hands... Since they have blood on their hands most days, and for them it isn't a metaphor.

[Old_Geezer]

Interesting that folk insist blame be put on those who feel pushed into doing the only thing that they have open to them rather than those who created the situation. IMO assigning blame isn't useful. The system should be designed to cope when folk feel it necessary to withdrawn their labour and to prevent such conflict and lack of options in the first place.

But if you feel you must choose between the two parties surely the bully who imposes carries more responsibility than the bullied who react.

[New Judge]

“So some people think it is about pay. I suggest you check things out before commenting.”

Well I’ve checked things out. You can read the BMA’s current take on the dispute here:

http://oneprofession.bma.org.uk/?gclid=CKalvO7t28sCFRIUGwodpXELvg

In particular, the section “Why Junior Doctors are taking industrial action” says this:

“Discussions with the Government continued throughout January, which led to the suspension of the planned 48-hour action on 26-28 January. However, despite the best efforts of the BMA negotiating team, major sticking points, including around the classification of Saturdays, remain.”

According to the BMA’s own account this dispute could have been resolved if the doctors had:

(a) Been paid more for working during the day on Saturdays and
(b) Received more of the fines levied on [taxpayer funded] health authorities that fail to reach their targets.

If that’s not about pay I don’t know what is.