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What Provision Is In Place For The 300,000 'brits In Spain Who Might Have To Come Home In The Event Of Britex?
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sandy - you naughty boy ! perhaps the French will take them pro tem - as the jungle at Callis will be ... an empty jungle. yeah and the Beeb will do interviews with deeply tanned men with tattoos and shorts ( only - its hot over there ! ) and instead of saying " I wand got England - gott save the Kwin ! " we will have " ere mate- I got wife and four kids and they aint had...
07:20 Wed 01st Jun 2016
Once again Eddie is putting forward all sorts of nonsense without checking the facts. There is no uncertainty and here's the facts:
First of all, it will be in nobody’s interests to repatriate the UK citizens living in the EU and vice-versa. It simply wouldn’t happen. However, even if it was proposed, there is something called the Vienna Convention on Treaties. This is a United Nations document and it states (among many other things) that citizens who have taken advantage of provisions of a treaty (e.g. moved from the UK to settle in Spain under the various EEC and EU treaties, most recently the Lisbon Treaty) cannot be forced to lose the rights they acquired under that (or those) treaties. End of.
Look it up (I have – it’s a lengthy document and you have to dig through it to find the relevant passage. Regrettably so much nonsense is spouted in this entire debate when just a little digging will establish the true position. “Project Fear” has certainly done its stuff on many people and it does them no favours.
Of course there is always the chance that the remainder of the EU and the UK will ignore the Vienna Treaty and forcibly repatriate huindreds of thousands of people (over 300,000 EU citizens setlled in the UK in the last year alone). However, since there are far more people from the rest of the EU settled in the UK than there are UK citizens settled elsewhere in the EU, do you really think it likely?
First of all, it will be in nobody’s interests to repatriate the UK citizens living in the EU and vice-versa. It simply wouldn’t happen. However, even if it was proposed, there is something called the Vienna Convention on Treaties. This is a United Nations document and it states (among many other things) that citizens who have taken advantage of provisions of a treaty (e.g. moved from the UK to settle in Spain under the various EEC and EU treaties, most recently the Lisbon Treaty) cannot be forced to lose the rights they acquired under that (or those) treaties. End of.
Look it up (I have – it’s a lengthy document and you have to dig through it to find the relevant passage. Regrettably so much nonsense is spouted in this entire debate when just a little digging will establish the true position. “Project Fear” has certainly done its stuff on many people and it does them no favours.
Of course there is always the chance that the remainder of the EU and the UK will ignore the Vienna Treaty and forcibly repatriate huindreds of thousands of people (over 300,000 EU citizens setlled in the UK in the last year alone). However, since there are far more people from the rest of the EU settled in the UK than there are UK citizens settled elsewhere in the EU, do you really think it likely?
Quite so, ron.
People seem to forget that there are about 170 countries in the world outside the EU. People move to and from those countries to settle. The big, big difference is that with the rest, the recipient countries control who does and who does not settle within their borders. Those countries also manage to trade with each other, with or without trading agreements but (and it’s a big but) without the need to have the free movement of people and to be forced into an ever closer political union.
Movement of people and freedom to trade existed perfectly well within Europe prior to the EU being formed. Furthermore both still take place perfectly well outside the EU. The EU has no purpose in these matters and is in fact particularly inept when it comes to negotiating trading agreements. All that happens is that its stifling bureaucracy hampers nations that want to get on and do their own thing a little differently to suit their own circumstances. Not only would the UK not join the EU today, the EU itself (at least in its present form) would not be invented if it did not exist. The Euromaniacs have done a perfect job in managing to convince people that life as they know it cannot continue without the EU. Nothing could be further from the truth. All sorts of dire warnings (such as this one) emerge and all can be easily batted away with a modicum of thought and research. Many nonsensical remarks made here on AB in the last few weeks demonstrate this amply. As far as the UK is concerned life as we know it certainly cannot continue if we remain in the EU. At least a quarter of a million people a year will come to settle here if we remain in and this is almost certainly an underestimate. Furthermore the EU’s tentacles will reach ever deeper into the UK (despite Mr Cameron’s assurances) and it will not be long before it has a hefty influence over tax, spending, defence and foreign policy.
I voters are concerned about uncertainty there is only one way they should vote.
People seem to forget that there are about 170 countries in the world outside the EU. People move to and from those countries to settle. The big, big difference is that with the rest, the recipient countries control who does and who does not settle within their borders. Those countries also manage to trade with each other, with or without trading agreements but (and it’s a big but) without the need to have the free movement of people and to be forced into an ever closer political union.
Movement of people and freedom to trade existed perfectly well within Europe prior to the EU being formed. Furthermore both still take place perfectly well outside the EU. The EU has no purpose in these matters and is in fact particularly inept when it comes to negotiating trading agreements. All that happens is that its stifling bureaucracy hampers nations that want to get on and do their own thing a little differently to suit their own circumstances. Not only would the UK not join the EU today, the EU itself (at least in its present form) would not be invented if it did not exist. The Euromaniacs have done a perfect job in managing to convince people that life as they know it cannot continue without the EU. Nothing could be further from the truth. All sorts of dire warnings (such as this one) emerge and all can be easily batted away with a modicum of thought and research. Many nonsensical remarks made here on AB in the last few weeks demonstrate this amply. As far as the UK is concerned life as we know it certainly cannot continue if we remain in the EU. At least a quarter of a million people a year will come to settle here if we remain in and this is almost certainly an underestimate. Furthermore the EU’s tentacles will reach ever deeper into the UK (despite Mr Cameron’s assurances) and it will not be long before it has a hefty influence over tax, spending, defence and foreign policy.
I voters are concerned about uncertainty there is only one way they should vote.
Ron....Things have suddenly changed, but I am not sure if reciprocity between the health services of Spain and Britain existed before we joined the EU. As most of these Ex-pat Brits who live in places like Spain are, by their very nature, older and retired, its probable that they will need the health care system more than average.
As I understand, that reciprocity will not continue once we leave the EU.
After all, if we don't want Spaniards coming here and using our NHS, why should we be expected to use theirs when the necessity arises ?
As I understand, that reciprocity will not continue once we leave the EU.
After all, if we don't want Spaniards coming here and using our NHS, why should we be expected to use theirs when the necessity arises ?
The difficulty with that Mush, is that it isn't just Spain to consider.
Ex-pat Brits exist all over the EU region, and I can't see that reciprocity could be negotiated between us and so many other questions. According to a Guardian feature of a few days ago, it seems that the overwhelming view of the Ex-pat community near Benidorm were worried about Brexit, most due to health system issues.
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Ex-pat Brits exist all over the EU region, and I can't see that reciprocity could be negotiated between us and so many other questions. According to a Guardian feature of a few days ago, it seems that the overwhelming view of the Ex-pat community near Benidorm were worried about Brexit, most due to health system issues.
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Quite honestly those who have upped sticks to live elsewhere in the EU will have to take their chances. As I explained earlier, it is most unlikely that they will lose any of the rights they had beforehand (the Vienna Convention on Treaties). If they do, or they fear that they might, their choice is straightforward: they can either apply for citizenship of their adopted country or they can return to the UK. The notion that the requirements of people who have left the UK (many of whom with no plans to return) should somehow be a consideration for those people living here when they decide what is best for the UK is somewhat laughable.
There are many people of all nationalities elsewhere in Europe for whom “Brexit” will prove problematic for one reason or another. Life’s tough.
There are many people of all nationalities elsewhere in Europe for whom “Brexit” will prove problematic for one reason or another. Life’s tough.
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