How Main Remainers Have Now Changed Their Mind?

[ToraToraTora]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/brexit-regrets-yes-wish-id-voted-leave/
We've have 6 months of howling and wriggling from the SGB but it seems there are some remain voters that regret not voting to leave themselves.

[New Judge]

“I have Polish friends and Lithuanian & Latvian friends. They are all decent people with the same values as me.”

I’m sure that’s true Eddie. But your reaction was to this from Mikey:

“Eddie...You have hit the nail on the head there :::

"To get rid of the bl***dy foreigners & immigrants" “

Many people (like me) who voted to leave did not do so in the belief that we would “..get rid of the bl***dy foreigners & immigrants". It would have been foolish to have thought so and in any case it’s not what we envisaged (and still do not envisage) and not what we want. What most people want, for the reasons I stated in my earlier post, is an end to uncontrolled immigration. I’m sure you’re right when you say that some people who voted to leave were of that persuasion. But every time the question of Brexit and immigration is raised the same accusations of such stereotypes are wheeled out. It’s probably dependent on who you speak to and mix with. But none of the people I know want or expect foreigners already legally here to be expelled from the UK. It would be nice if you and Mikey could accept that as a fact and not simply tar all Leavers with the same racist, xenophobic brush.

[EDDIE51]

leftee, I am not sure if your accusation of 'lack of intelligence' is aimed at me or at those who post anti immigration and pro brexit rants ?

[vetuste_ennemi]

Mike, Eddie and Leftee: stop talking amongst yourselves - the stupidity becomes self-reinforcing.

In your case, Mikey, stick to opera. You know far more about it than I do and your posts on the subject are informative and engaging.

[EDDIE51]

New Judge, I was actually intending to uphold you as an example of the sensible and reasoned view of 'Brexit' . I do not consider you as a racist in any way. Unfortunately in my experience views such as your measured reasoned assessment are too few and far between.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Apologies if I've put you in the wrong camp, Leftee.
I'm frustrated (more than irritated) by the inability/unwillingness of people like Mikey to allow the possibility that people like me voted not out of hatred, but for honorable reasons.

[EDDIE51]

V E , Yes I am very well aware that there were very many who voted 'Leave' for the best and most honorable of reasons. However my personal experience is that a majority voted 'Leave' due to dislike of forieners and immigration.

[vetuste_ennemi]

And if I'm this dull-witted at 10 pm what chances for me at the end of presidential election coverage?

[Togo]

//However my personal experience is that a majority voted 'Leave' due to dislike of forieners and immigration.//

Well don't blame us for the circles you move in.

[EDDIE51]

^ No point in waiting up VE, the final result is not expected until mid morning tomorrow UK time. That will do for me.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Personal experience is anecdotal evidence, Eddie. Three weeks after the vote we had two Polish workers doing quite a big job for us. I can't remember any resentment by them or hatred from us. Not that we discussed the referendum. Why do you think the nasties you've met are typical? If your stereotype is right half of the UK population is composed of border-line racists (Mikey's words). Basket of deplorables (Hillary's words).

[EDDIE51]

Some very interesting statistics here. Control of borders and immigration was the 2nd most common reason given for voting 'Leave'
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
That is the closest it can actually say to 'dislike of forieners and immigrants'
Also a little nugget in there, 4% of UKIP supporters voted to remain in the EU!

[vetuste_ennemi]

" Control of borders and immigration" is not a proof of xenophobia, Eddie, it's a proof of common sense. Please refer back to NJ's posts.

[naomi24]

Eddie, //That is the closest it can actually say to 'dislike of forieners and immigrants' //

Do you think 'it' wanted to say something it didn't say and if so why do you think that?

[EDDIE51]

The poll gave its participants a choice of reasons , one of which was 'to control borders and immigration'
As racism is a crime , people could scarcely be expected to admit to it.
I am as aware as you are that there are valid reasons for control of borders and immigration.
However, I am certain a large % of those who selected that option did so only because it was the nearest they could get to their true feelings. No proof obviously, just my instinct !

[naomi24]

Eddie, //No proof obviously//

Obviously. Mikey is fond of slinging what he thinks are fashionable, right on, words around - one of them being 'bigot'. Think about it.

[New Judge]

"That is the closest it can actually say to 'dislike of forieners and immigrants'"

And it's not even close, Eddie. I can't really explain this any clearer, but wanting to control immigration (which I do) is poles apart from disliking foreigners, or worse, of being racist (which I'm not). Not much annoys me these days but this correlation does. As I said earlier it is constantly cited whenever immigration is discussed. As soon as anybody suggests that immigration should (and indeed must) be controlled they are immediately branded as racists. Of the people who voted to leave principally to control immigration, you have no way of knowing how many (if any) of them are racists. I know you have made an exception of me, which I appreciate. But to my way of thinking, normally associating people who want to control immigration as racists is as offensive as racism itself.

Unfortunately this viewpoint has held sway here in the UK for decades and as a result debating the question of immigration has become almost taboo. In the year to last March, more than 630,000 people arrived to settle in the UK (a far more pertinent figure than the disingenuous "net" migration figures). Almost half of these came from the EU, a number over which the UK has absolutely no control. People fretting over this are not racists. They see that many parts of the UK are struggling to cope with the numbers (of all races) already here. To equate that worry with racism because you've seen a few idiots abuse their corner shopkeeper is, I'm sorry to say, badly out of order.