Electricity Meter Bypass

[guygodfrey]

Hi - we own a small sunbed shop which we lease. In August 2016 the old Landlord sold the premises to a new Landlord. As part of the sale the old landlord conducted several safety improvements including rewiring of a very poor looking electricty consumer board. His electrician cut all the seals on all the meters (there were 6 meters) so he could remove and rearrange all so he could fit the new and much larger consumer trip switches.

Apart from cutting the seals on the meters, he also introduced a meter that wasnt registered with the electricity company and as such this is knwn as Electricity Meter by-pass. This meter was connected to one sunbed only with the others legally connected to a registered meter.

Last week we recieved a visit from the Electricty company who promptly accused us of stealling their electricity. They removed all meters and disconnected us. They then agreed to reconnect us if we paid £5000 which we did. The Electricity company stated that they will calaculate what they beleive we have used and either charge more of give us a refund.

Today I have been told they will be charging us £15000. This isnt based on any calculation but on what they feel a similar building and business would use. Therefore they are asking for a further £10000 plus call out charges and all because of our old lanlord.

We have always paid by direct debit and never been arrears. The shop is not making much money and possibly only uses £1000 of electricity a year. The only evidence we have that the old landlord conductecd any work is a Certificate but this doesnt state that the meters all had their seals broken and were rearranged.

We do have other meters on each sunbed that track the 'Hours' each bed is used. (We need this to track buld usage so that they are replaced every 800 hours). I proposed this as evidence that we can track usage (which would be around £105) but this has been rejected.

Can anyone provide an insight into the legallities of this situation? Is the way the back charges being calculated correct and legal? (they are stating this is set by Ofgem)?. Do we have any recourse and can we cahllenge or do we just accept and pay? ....and finally how do we sue the old landlord who now lives in France?

Thanks

[Bazile]

Others might suggest different - but it sounds to me that you should seek the assistance/ advice of a solicitor on this

[Peter Pedant]

the law the law
what is the law on this ?

well the customer is responsible for keeping his meters pristine... and also for paying for erm unpaid for electricity

clearly they thought you were criminally liable
but you havent made it clear if you were cleared
or if the electric co just say " sez you..." which would indicate that they still think

Here is a scholarly paper on estimating losses
https://www.merl.com/publications/docs/TR2015-005.pdf

and you are right - for meter bypass it is not a done deal

The over seer is Ofgem
and it is worth contacting them over estimation of losses because you are right

it is one bed - and and you have accurate records of its use and the cost of the elec used

( because the major part of your consumption you have paid for )

as far as I can see they can't use their estimates as a way of punishing you civilly

ofgem oversees this and so I think this is your first stop
and discussing disputes over estimates
and what exactly Ofgem advises
( like you know 'in the absence of better ways to estimate, then .... ) and you have a better way to estimate

[Peter Pedant]

yeah re read t
yes
They are ripping you off
you can show what your consumption is
that only one eighth was bypassed
ergo unpaid bit was 1000/8 of £125

also the certificate - shows it cannot possibly be you...
incredibly you can show lack of criminal intent ( for you) as someone else did it and paid for it

ofgem and follow complaints procedure
and contact the elec co and demand and follow complaints procedure

straightforward - you can save an awful lot of money by doing it

[guygodfrey]

Thanks for the advise.

The Electricity company seem to accept we are not criminals responsible and agree that another party was at fault, but their stance is 'you are responsible'. They are also basing their fine on worse case and that we have had free electricity since day 1. Their last comment was that they need hard proof!! Not sure what else we can provide.

We have got hold of the electrician involved but he is being evasive. He would be key to this but if he admits anything she could loose his licence.

We will contact Ofgem and see how that goes.

Would appreciate any input from anyone who has been in a similar situation.

[guygodfrey]

......and we need spell check on this forum....

[Peter Pedant]

Me again
one of my tenants has electricity abstracted by a neighbour.

two pins below the meter
since two adjacent houses are on different phases of three phase, the abstracting house has to be cut off ( or else there is an explosion - incredibly dangerous )

and one of my fathers tenants noticed he needed no shillin' n the meter if he used a certain three point plug
so he permanently plugged in a two bar fire ...
My father had to pay for that one

and the one that I latterly recollected
and showed the elec companies are a law unto themselves

my brothers tenant was to be cut off
and the meter was in a locked garage so they employed a carpenter to take the doors off the garage
to gain access
and then they put the doors back
( the end result was that the tenant was cut off w/o the Landlords knowledge but the doors looked as tho they were taken off and then put back )

so when my brother rang and said why didnt you ring me and ask for communal access to a communal area

they replied - we dont have to

which is basically how you are being treated .....
( we could estimate in a different way but we dont have to)

[twix123]

2 points.

1. Do you own the premises, or just rent them? Your first sentence suggests both.

2. Were the meter readings recorded and agreed when the sale of the premises was completed?

The electricity supply company will argue that the meters could have been tampered with immediately after their last official reading by one of their employees, so will base their estimate from that date forward, but if you have been in the premises for a long enough period prior to the meter reading date, they should be able to calculate your average usage for the period (although I would think that they would also want a penalty charge for using equipment that had been tampered with!).

Speak to a solicitor, you may have a claim against your current landlord, who would have to then claim against the previous landlord (if you don't own the premises).

[Peter Pedant]

// (although I would think that they would also want a penalty charge for using equipment that had been tampered with!).

Speak to a solicitor, you may have a claim against your current landlord,//

yes - but

looking at the literature on this
the elec co cannot charge a creeping penalty
they seem under a duty to charge for the elec only that hasnt been paid for (!)
They can argue the new circuit board is a novus actus ( cuts across causation as a new act )

If the elec is saying the new circuit board is NOT a new act/actus novus then they must have data to back that up which means that there is base data to argue from
( if they say consumption last year is the same as 16 y they can say fine/OK - we also know that only an eigth is unpaid for over the last year so that is the same for the last 15y and so 15k is looking more like 2k )

Since in fact quite a lot of this data is gonna be agreed anyway - they can do it themselves by following standard complaints procedures - before throwing money at a lawyer which they wont get back as everyone agree there has been naughtiness somewhere

The landlord is in France ( I can see why) and suing has to be thro his contact point in the UK - easy if there is an agent which I bet there isnt .... I can also see why the LL est en France

[guygodfrey]

Thank you all for your advise.

We have been asked for facts and so far these have been rejected. I do believe there are facts which should stand as follows.

1. The Meters have been read since the dawn of time by Electricity Company personnel. They would have reported the meter seals as being broken at a much earlier date.

2. We have a certificate from the electrician confirming the date the work took place (albeit he is stating he cannot remember what he did). However this certificate states the work was completed to correct standards. So if this is accepted, it states the seals were intact in August (although this then raises the question who cut the seals), or if rejected would imply this electrician isnt to be trusted and this is the date the offence happened.

.....and this is all we have.

Thanks

[Zacs-Master]

Have you contacted Ofgen?

[murraymints]

did you not get final reading when you took on this place..supplier would then have attributed all to previous occupier and you could have walked away to other premises

[guygodfrey]

We will be contacting Ofgem after the next response but I think they are key as they will either support us or the electricity company. So just a bit apprehensive.

As for the Meter readings etc, we have been leasing the building since 2006 and all readings were recorded and sorted back then. This is adding to my dilemma as the electricity company are using the excuse that we could have been fiddling the meter since 2006.... hence the £15k charge. We have been told to prove it happend in August by a 3rd party which isnt easy...