Even The Dutch Have Had Enough Of The Right On Brigade!

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39109725

[Bigbad]

I really hope that the Brexit vote was the start of something big.

I would love to see the European Union crumble to dust, and the unelected, megalomaniacal so-called leaders crumble to dust with it.

It’s high time every country put it’s own citizens first.

[ToraToraTora]

stop it bigbad you are getting me excited!

[Kromovaracun]

Personally, I'm not so optimistic about seeing Europe return to the pre-1950s era of nation states competing in a state of nature. Nor do I relish the Russian dominance of the continent that I think will come with it.

But it's probably what is going to happen, so hey ho.

[Bigbad]

Kromovaracun, why do you think it would return to pre 1950’s, and result in Russian domination?

The first word of your post just shows that reasons for wanting to stay in/leave the European Union are indeed personal and based on different hopes and aspirations.

[anotheoldgit]

Interesting times ahead, Geert Wilders in Holland, Marine Le Pen in France and Donald Trump in America.

[Kromovaracun]

Bigbad - the EU is, in my opinion, one of the biggest counterbalances to the corrupt personal network that is centred in Moscow. This is why Ukraine's association agreement resulted in the (pro-Russian) government being deposed, and why people like Sam Greene describe the European Union as a significant influence for rule of law in Eastern Europe. The Russian government has already proved capable of committing murder with impunity on British soil, and the country's elites owns vast swathes of London. If the continent slips back into atomised nation states that just look after themselves under Russophile governments - and the US follows an isolationist policy for the next 4-8 years - then I predict Europe is going to become a playground for Russia's elites. I don't think that is a good thing.

[Bigbad]

Kromovaracun, Thank you for your reply.

Can’t say I see things the same way as you, though!
Don’t think Russia is the super power that it used to be, but I’d rather it was a friend than an enemy.

I am a very firm believer in every country looking after it’s own, but we have moved so far away from that in the UK, to the point where complaining about it gets you the label of 'racist’ or ‘Xenophobe.’

Of course I don’t want to see any part of the UK become a "playground for Russia’s elites" but at least the elites pay their own way instead of sponging and pushing the rest of us further down the line.

[Kromovaracun]

Fair enough, Bigbad. These are complicated issues and all we can do as citizens is try our best to reach our own conclusions about them :)

[ichkeria]

I don't think that'll happen kromo
Support for the EU in France for example rose after our referendum.
Le aPen, Weelders and the AFD may shout loudly, and their support has increased, but there is no serious prospect of any of them coming to power.
And Trump did not win the popular vote in the US
Let's not hand these people a premature victory.
You are of course right about the risks.

[diddlydo]

Bigbad - you need to learn the difference between "it's" and "its". It matters.

[ichkeria]

We have seen Russian interference in western elections, and even a GRU plot to assassinate the prime minister of Montenegro, to try to keep that country out of NATO.
If you think a Russian state which is really little distinguished from its own mafia is a potential friend to Europe then you are misguided. And so is the idea that a Europe of competing nations with no EU-like set up to unite them is a recipe for peace.
Le Pen claims that the nations of the EU are at each other's throats: "C'est la guerre" she croaked recently. No it isnt: it's not war, as anyone who can actually remember a proper war should not be slow to point out

[hereIam]

Well done to the Dutch.

[Kromovaracun]

For obvious reasons though, the public in France is presently terrified about the threat of Islamic terrorism, and as best I can make out, Le Pen has been quite successful in positioning herself as the credible "get tough" candidate. If she wins the presidency next year, I really don't see how the EU can survive.

[Bigbad]

diddlydo

I’m (short for “I am”) guilty of a typo. Big deal.
Assuming you spend your days being a grammar cop and pointing out the many errors to be found on AB, then you must have a very empty life.

[ToraToraTora]

ich "And Trump did not win the popular vote in the US " - PMSL, still banging that old drum ich! tell you what ask Hillary if she'd rather be in the WH!

[youngmafbog]

I like the question from the BBC which is probably very genuine: "Why do so many people in this usually liberal country support him"

I doubt any of the liberal elite do understand why, they think we are all too thick to understand Politics and should do what we are told. None of them get the worm is turning.

Its probably gong to be a close call but I suspect both Mme LePenn and Mr Wilders wont quite make it.

[Kromovaracun]

Yes ich, how dare you keep spouting those nasty facts. How terrible.

[ichkeria]

Trump didn't win the popular vote. So while that doesn't diminish his legitimacy as president, it does undermine the argument that he is part of some popular wave. And his current approval ratings only confirm that.
Le Pen is highly unlikely to win any run off for president in France, the AFD candidate in Germany trailed at around 12% in a recent poll, behind Merkel and Schultz, and while Weelders' party is ahead in the Dutch poll, the blonde bombshell is unlikely to seduce other party leaders into a coalition

[ToraToraTora]

well it looks like the Screaming lords are the next to rain on the Liberal elite parade eh?