Could All Help With Signing My Petition
Seasonal3 mins ago
Schengen
I'm taking a 2 hour drive to Strasbourg this morning which means crossing the French border, and a friend who lives there advises, 'Don’t forget to take your passport, It’s unlikely you’ll be checked at the border, although it does happen sometimes, especially at sensitive times of the year.'
It's never happened before, but does it look like the Schengen project maybe beginning to crumble?
It's never happened before, but does it look like the Schengen project maybe beginning to crumble?
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As I said in my very first response to this thread, the French don't always check passports - they rely on the British to do it for them; since both sets of border police are within yards of each other, at Calais, Folkestone and Dover it's almost overkill having both do the checks but it does happen sometimes. In reality, you didn't go from UK to France without having your passport checked.
Sorry naomi I was not trying to hassle you, but you did not seem an unreasonable question.
What would be more to the point would be seeing how EU/non EU land borders cope (there are extremely strict controls in some places but a land border is harder to police of course) The UK seems fairly well protected to me.
What would be more to the point would be seeing how EU/non EU land borders cope (there are extremely strict controls in some places but a land border is harder to police of course) The UK seems fairly well protected to me.
“Don't know about New Judge.”
Last time for me was in Greece. I arrived on Sunday evening about 7pm and all the border staff had gone home.
“Why is that a problem? If the EU had not done a "by nation" allocation then one or two countries would have been saddled with all the admin and accommodation.”
It’s a problem because one or two (perhaps three or four) countries are still saddled with everything you mention. Migrants from Africa and Asia do not want to stay in Hungary or Bulgaria or Slovakia. Nor for that matter do they want to be in Italy, Greece or Spain. They want to be in Germany, France, Sweden and the UK (which I accept, as a non-signatory to Schengen does not face quite the same problems as countries that are).
“The deal was not "you have to stay put in that country" was it?”
There was no “deal” as far as I am aware, which makes a mockery of the allocation exercise which caused quite a bit of rancour amongst some member nations. The Euromaniacs simply decided that x% of those arriving here (many illegally) would simply be farmed out to each country. The original idea of freedom of movement (with which I don’t agree but that’s neither here nor there) is that those entitled to be in the EU were free to move about and settle where they chose. Under Schengen the Dublin Agreement and parts of the UN Convention on the status of refugees (which essentially both say that refugees should have their claim for protection handled in the first safe country they land in) were tacitly ditched. So it isn’t “fair enough” that people who land on Italy’s island of Lampedusa are quickly fingerprinted (if indeed that is done) and then sent to make their way to their destination of choice. International borders on the Continent have never particularly well enforced for many decades but the facility for migrants to roam has been eased enormously because of the ridiculous Schengen Agreement.
As I have said many times, the EU tackled the problem from the wrong end. Instead of protecting its external borders (which they seem to be making an inordinate amount of fuss about on the island of Ireland lest anybody should smuggle a few widgets of the wrong shape from Belfast to Dublin) they chose to deal with the invaders after they had arrived.
Last time for me was in Greece. I arrived on Sunday evening about 7pm and all the border staff had gone home.
“Why is that a problem? If the EU had not done a "by nation" allocation then one or two countries would have been saddled with all the admin and accommodation.”
It’s a problem because one or two (perhaps three or four) countries are still saddled with everything you mention. Migrants from Africa and Asia do not want to stay in Hungary or Bulgaria or Slovakia. Nor for that matter do they want to be in Italy, Greece or Spain. They want to be in Germany, France, Sweden and the UK (which I accept, as a non-signatory to Schengen does not face quite the same problems as countries that are).
“The deal was not "you have to stay put in that country" was it?”
There was no “deal” as far as I am aware, which makes a mockery of the allocation exercise which caused quite a bit of rancour amongst some member nations. The Euromaniacs simply decided that x% of those arriving here (many illegally) would simply be farmed out to each country. The original idea of freedom of movement (with which I don’t agree but that’s neither here nor there) is that those entitled to be in the EU were free to move about and settle where they chose. Under Schengen the Dublin Agreement and parts of the UN Convention on the status of refugees (which essentially both say that refugees should have their claim for protection handled in the first safe country they land in) were tacitly ditched. So it isn’t “fair enough” that people who land on Italy’s island of Lampedusa are quickly fingerprinted (if indeed that is done) and then sent to make their way to their destination of choice. International borders on the Continent have never particularly well enforced for many decades but the facility for migrants to roam has been eased enormously because of the ridiculous Schengen Agreement.
As I have said many times, the EU tackled the problem from the wrong end. Instead of protecting its external borders (which they seem to be making an inordinate amount of fuss about on the island of Ireland lest anybody should smuggle a few widgets of the wrong shape from Belfast to Dublin) they chose to deal with the invaders after they had arrived.
"As I have said many times, the EU tackled the problem from the wrong end. Instead of protecting its external borders (which they seem to be making an inordinate amount of fuss about on the island of Ireland lest anybody should smuggle a few widgets of the wrong shape from Belfast to Dublin) they chose to deal with the invaders after they had arrived. "
I agree that the EU should reinforce its borders. But they don't actually seem to be too bothered by the Irish widgets, otherwise they'd be manning the barricades with Arlene :-)
I agree that the EU should reinforce its borders. But they don't actually seem to be too bothered by the Irish widgets, otherwise they'd be manning the barricades with Arlene :-)
"t’s a problem because one or two (perhaps three or four) countries are still saddled with everything you mention. Migrants from Africa and Asia do not want to stay in Hungary or Bulgaria or Slovakia. Nor for that matter do they want to be in Italy, Greece or Spain. They want to be in Germany, France, Sweden and the UK (which I accept, as a non-signatory to Schengen does not face quite the same problems as countries that are). "
Indeed, but that would happen anyway. The valiant attempt to settle people in places like Hungary and Slovakia is plainly doomed, but the alternative is ...: they are just sent elsewhere anyway. The issue, as you rightly point out later, is the external border -- not the internal one. And it so happens that the Hungaries and the Slovakias of this world don't want these people anyway. You can argue that it is the nasty old EU foisting unwanted migrants on them but at the same time this is an issue fundamentally not of the EU's making. I am all in favour of abandoning at least temporarily Schengen arrangements in the interests of security, but the idea that Schengen is actually the problem here, or makes this particular problem worse, doesn't really stack up to me., And I am intrigued to know why khandro thinks that just because he's been told to take his passport to France with him, that this is a sign that open borders are coming to an end (!)
Indeed, but that would happen anyway. The valiant attempt to settle people in places like Hungary and Slovakia is plainly doomed, but the alternative is ...: they are just sent elsewhere anyway. The issue, as you rightly point out later, is the external border -- not the internal one. And it so happens that the Hungaries and the Slovakias of this world don't want these people anyway. You can argue that it is the nasty old EU foisting unwanted migrants on them but at the same time this is an issue fundamentally not of the EU's making. I am all in favour of abandoning at least temporarily Schengen arrangements in the interests of security, but the idea that Schengen is actually the problem here, or makes this particular problem worse, doesn't really stack up to me., And I am intrigued to know why khandro thinks that just because he's been told to take his passport to France with him, that this is a sign that open borders are coming to an end (!)
Postcript
I didn't have to show my passport at the frontier either in or out of France, but I am able to report that as far as Strasbourg is concerned, the terrorists are not only winning, they have won!
About a square mile of the centre is in complete lockdown, with barricades on every street and bridge entrance at which everyone and every bag they carry is searched.
To avoid having to search every passenger on the many trams which cross through the centre the trams do not stop but remain sealed until the pass out the other side, (rather inconvenient to say the least).
There is a Christmas market within the cordon and so there are no vehicles allowed within the square mile.
There are also masses of armed police and army personnel everywhere you look.
Merry Christmas Strasbourg!
I didn't have to show my passport at the frontier either in or out of France, but I am able to report that as far as Strasbourg is concerned, the terrorists are not only winning, they have won!
About a square mile of the centre is in complete lockdown, with barricades on every street and bridge entrance at which everyone and every bag they carry is searched.
To avoid having to search every passenger on the many trams which cross through the centre the trams do not stop but remain sealed until the pass out the other side, (rather inconvenient to say the least).
There is a Christmas market within the cordon and so there are no vehicles allowed within the square mile.
There are also masses of armed police and army personnel everywhere you look.
Merry Christmas Strasbourg!
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