So If We Say No, We Leave With No Deal, Right?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44413526
Count me in!

[Old_Geezer]

Terms are a starting point in negotions. Both sides of the table have terms. It not about what crumbs one side offers, it's supposed to be intelligent people working out what's best for all, unless one side has an axe to grind about the other side leaving the club, and simply want to cause problems.

Meanwhile no one can predict with certainty who will be voted in leader of a party, and thus PM, when some loser resigns.

I know some folk exist who like to claim everything must be analysed in the minutest detail and planned for before starting anything, but in reality one has a goal and has to adapt to circumstances as they arise on route. Voting for what is right is the correct thing to do, not cowering in fear of doing anything because one can imagine issues.

[Zacs-Master]

Cowering in fear.....riiiiight. Yep, that me.
As for negotiations, I wonder how many leave voters realised that article 50 states:
‘the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State’
But, then goes on to qualify that statement with:
‘the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it’

Not many by their comments on here.

[jim360]

This thread doesn't exist in a vacuum, Talbot -- you can refer to my many other posts for a more coherent analysis than my first contribution to this one.

[Old_Geezer]

It's irrelevant. The exit is one thing, the negotions for the future another. Besides no one can force an independent state to do their bidding. If we decided not to pay money they're demanding then it wouldn't be paid. But at least our side has the sense to at least try to reach a mutually acceptable parting.

[Zacs-Master]

Once again I say ‘if it’s irrelevant, why are we in the state we’re in?’ ‘Why aren’t we just walking away?’

Other than the fact that we have a pro EU Govt, of course. Another point I’ve made, repeatedly.

[gulliver1]

" When will we know what we voted for" That says it all. How about Turkeys voting for Christmas.

[cassa333]

Of course we have no say in how the EU decides on what terms they are willing to offer. In the same way the EU are not in the cabinet meetings in Downing Street (in spirit perhaps but not in body).

So bringing that clause up is a bit silly considering the leavers are the ones supposed to be hard of learning.

Where we go wrong is all the remainers clambering over one another demanding everything be published for all to see.

Our withdrawals could be quite simple. It is the negotiating of new terms that is tricky.

I suspect we will get a lot of what we are looking for but the costs will be high.

Remainers want the high price because it will vindicate the screaming abbdabbs they are having.

[Kromovaracun]

Yep. Remainers are the ones to blame for this mess, all right.

-_-

[Zacs-Master]

‘It is the negotiating of new terms that is tricky’

Yep, especially when we aren’t part of it! Which is why I thought it relevant (rather tha ‘silly’) to bring it up.

I thought you were in favour of just walking away rather than negotiating?

[New Judge]

"I wonder how many leave voters realised that article 50 states:
‘the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State’
But, then goes on to qualify that statement with:
‘the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it’"

I realised it. I read A50 before casting my vote. And it's perfectly reasonable. The discussions from which we are excluded are those between the Euromaniacs and the remaining 27 to see what terms they will kindly agree to offer us. We should obviously be no part of that as it's not our business.

[Zacs-Master]

As I’ve said before, NJ, you seem much better informed than most leave voters.
When do we actually receive the final summation of the member state’s deliberations.

[baza]

The majority votes were to leave so lets get on with it, no deal then we walk away , heads held high, not skulk away sobbing.

[Old_Geezer]

"Once again I say ‘if it’s irrelevant, why are we in the state we’re in?’ ‘Why aren’t we just walking away?’ "

"at least our side has the sense to at least try to reach a mutually acceptable parting."