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How Do You Think Negotiations Have Gone- 2 Years On Saturday Since
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It will be 2 years on Saturday since the Uk voted to Leave the EU how do you think things have gone? I think they have gone very badly and I think Theresa May is a weak leader who was always a remainer. I voted leave,how do others think the process has gone so far ?
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The negotiations aren't shambolic, they're complex. There's a subtle difference.
May was handed a poisoned chalice and wasn't the person for the job but MPs knew this and knew it was virtual career suicide to put themselves up for PM, hence the person we got - one who had about as much chance of being PM, pre Brexit, as she did of flying to the moon.
A classic case of 'some have greatness thrust upon them'.
May was handed a poisoned chalice and wasn't the person for the job but MPs knew this and knew it was virtual career suicide to put themselves up for PM, hence the person we got - one who had about as much chance of being PM, pre Brexit, as she did of flying to the moon.
A classic case of 'some have greatness thrust upon them'.
"I do wonder what impression the EU have of the government's negotiation skills !!?"
Probably about the same as we have of theirs. But who can tell because these have not been "negotiations". They have been lists of demands from the EU (though in return for what is a little unclear) to which the UK government has meekly submitted as tame supplicants.
Probably about the same as we have of theirs. But who can tell because these have not been "negotiations". They have been lists of demands from the EU (though in return for what is a little unclear) to which the UK government has meekly submitted as tame supplicants.
10Clarion, it doesn’t really matter if we realised what a can of worms it would be. (See my earlier post)
It is a can or worms for two main reasons, well lots of reasons but the two to start with is.. it appears our negotiating team is a bit wet and useless and the EU don’t negotiate.
There is also the fact the EU don’t want to lose our money. The UK they couldn’t care less about but our money is important to them. And there are many europhiles in office that think being part of this useless organisation is better than being out.
It is a can or worms for two main reasons, well lots of reasons but the two to start with is.. it appears our negotiating team is a bit wet and useless and the EU don’t negotiate.
There is also the fact the EU don’t want to lose our money. The UK they couldn’t care less about but our money is important to them. And there are many europhiles in office that think being part of this useless organisation is better than being out.
Is there a club anywhere that is based on the most obstreperous member serially making new demands every few months and the rest of the club rushing around to ask what he/she really wants, frantically adjusting everything to the new norm and then patiently welcoming the same procedure the next time, again and again ? What if they refused to and left said member to simply like it or lump it - if he walked off, then what ? Would the member be anything but delusional in assuming they would weep at his leaving, that the entire club would cease to exist without him ? Also, how easy would it be to demand from him any penalty in outstanding membership subscriptions, bar bill, etc. ?
Why should the EU do anything but tell the UK what the EU's terms are and wait to see what the UK does, at best be ready to listen to the UK's latest demands but otherwise promise nothing outside the EU's framework ? Is there the slightest realistic justification for the presumption that the EU is trembling at the thought of the fabled golden UK goose's egg no longer being laid ? Has the EU made any statements regarding forcing collection of any "exit charge" - is there any realistic prospect of the EU forcibly collecting this in the event that the UK "walks away" without a separation agreement ? Would the debt not simply remain a debt and be raised if ever the UK came to ask for anything again ?
Of course the UK can "walk away", in which event the EU is at liberty simply to proceed as they will including as if the UK was a complete stranger with no previous history (come to think of it, maybe the most flattering way to see the UK).
At some point any relentlessly self-indulgent brat will exhaust all patience and lose friends and be left to fend for him/herself. The brat will quite possibly be very slow in realising that the past casts a long shadow, mistrust has a very long half-life, long dead daddy's deeds and reputation no longer smooth the way, hoped for allies and friends disappear into the long grass, but reality will inexorably force its way into his/her psyche. Those with the relevant curiosity will look on with some interest, possibly (but not at all necessarily) with sympathy, how low the formerly great have become.
Why should the EU do anything but tell the UK what the EU's terms are and wait to see what the UK does, at best be ready to listen to the UK's latest demands but otherwise promise nothing outside the EU's framework ? Is there the slightest realistic justification for the presumption that the EU is trembling at the thought of the fabled golden UK goose's egg no longer being laid ? Has the EU made any statements regarding forcing collection of any "exit charge" - is there any realistic prospect of the EU forcibly collecting this in the event that the UK "walks away" without a separation agreement ? Would the debt not simply remain a debt and be raised if ever the UK came to ask for anything again ?
Of course the UK can "walk away", in which event the EU is at liberty simply to proceed as they will including as if the UK was a complete stranger with no previous history (come to think of it, maybe the most flattering way to see the UK).
At some point any relentlessly self-indulgent brat will exhaust all patience and lose friends and be left to fend for him/herself. The brat will quite possibly be very slow in realising that the past casts a long shadow, mistrust has a very long half-life, long dead daddy's deeds and reputation no longer smooth the way, hoped for allies and friends disappear into the long grass, but reality will inexorably force its way into his/her psyche. Those with the relevant curiosity will look on with some interest, possibly (but not at all necessarily) with sympathy, how low the formerly great have become.
More of a ridiculous analogy. Clubs tend not to tell members how to run their life and if they did, would expect any member with self respect to complain. Those members that didn't would either have no impression of self worth, or are taking out rather than paying in, so swallow their pride. (Unless they're in control of course.)
Of course the disgruntled member could leave without payments etc.. It'd bee a sensible option to consider, unless they were the decent sort and wanted to part on good terms. In those circumstances, if the club wanted to remain in contact and interact for mutual benefit then of course they would need to agree rules/terms, come to a deal/agreement, not try to dictate what they want or nothing. To suggest otherwise isn't logical.
Of course the disgruntled member could leave without payments etc.. It'd bee a sensible option to consider, unless they were the decent sort and wanted to part on good terms. In those circumstances, if the club wanted to remain in contact and interact for mutual benefit then of course they would need to agree rules/terms, come to a deal/agreement, not try to dictate what they want or nothing. To suggest otherwise isn't logical.
What we should never lose sight of is the word 'negotiation' which is the essential aspect of what is going on.
Negotiating is a lot like playing poker - you want to tease out a view of what the other guy is holding, without letting him see what you are holding.
In the end, the two sides both want various things, and they are going to compromise to get them. The negotiation revolves round what each wants, what the other will give to get what they want, and what we end up with, and we will not know that until the negotiations finish.
What we can be sure of, and this is borne out thus far, is that the EU will make things as complex and tricky as they can.
This is not simply bloody-mindedness - this is to ensure that any other nation thinking of leaving doesn't see the UK having a simple ride - which will encourage others to do the same.
The hopeful end result - that it's better for the UK, and that will encourage others to follow our lead, is something the EU cannot control, but that is further up the line.
We are negotiating, and there is a lot of doom-mongering, and similar bluffing because, to return to my original analogy, it's like playing poker.
Negotiating is a lot like playing poker - you want to tease out a view of what the other guy is holding, without letting him see what you are holding.
In the end, the two sides both want various things, and they are going to compromise to get them. The negotiation revolves round what each wants, what the other will give to get what they want, and what we end up with, and we will not know that until the negotiations finish.
What we can be sure of, and this is borne out thus far, is that the EU will make things as complex and tricky as they can.
This is not simply bloody-mindedness - this is to ensure that any other nation thinking of leaving doesn't see the UK having a simple ride - which will encourage others to do the same.
The hopeful end result - that it's better for the UK, and that will encourage others to follow our lead, is something the EU cannot control, but that is further up the line.
We are negotiating, and there is a lot of doom-mongering, and similar bluffing because, to return to my original analogy, it's like playing poker.
Let Boris take over the negotiations no 'Bog Roll' brexit then.
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