If You Had A Lot Of Social Influence Over Young Adults

[hc4361]

like The Kadashians (I know, I don't understand why are so influential, either) what message would you give out?

I'd tell them that their faces and bodies are good enough and don't need cosmetic surgery that make them like identikit barbie dolls, nor dental veneers that look like very white oversized 1950 dentures. They just need to be more active and embrace their own individual look.

[hc4361]

That message needs hammering home more than ever with the 24/7 availability of hard core porn the kids are watching, Andy. So very different to the 'mucky mags' I managed to see in my youth.

[andy-hughes]

hc4361 - I believe the core of the problem is the attitudes with which young men are raised, and have been for decades.

You can see it on here, whenever there is a case of a young woman being assaulted - as in long Ched Evans debate - there is a core of posters who want the woman to 'take responsibility' for what happened to her - as though by being drunk in a hotel room, she 'got what she asked for'.

I believe that excusing brutish behaviour by young men because of some sort of acceptance that women in set circumstance are fair game for sexual assault is morally repugnant, and has no place in a civilised society.

The sooner we can educate generations of young men that their behaviour is not governed by their urges, but by respect and proper treatment of the people around them, the sooner this horrible behaviour, and the even more horrible accepting and excusing it, will stop.

[hc4361]

I agree, Andy.

[Spicerack]

andy-hughes// hc4361 - I believe the core of the problem is the attitudes with which young men are raised, and have been for decades.

You can see it on here, whenever there is a case of a young woman being assaulted - as in long Ched Evans debate - there is a core of posters who want the woman to 'take responsibility' for what happened to her - as though by being drunk in a hotel room, she 'got what she asked for'. //

I've just read hundreds of posts re Ched Evans.
Some people, like yourself, wrongly thought he was guilty.
Some people, most perhaps, rightly thought he was not guilty.
But I didn't see one person claim 'she got what she asked for'.
Of the posts I read, this came closest;
andy-hughes
//I don't think anyone comes of out of this sorry situation with their dignity intact - certainly not the two dreadful men who indulged in casual sex with a complete stranger, but by the same token, the girl who drank so much that she put herself in a dangerous situation.

It would nice if footballers and single young women learned a lesson from this - but that is sadly unlikely to happen.//

[andy-hughes]

Spicerack - // But I didn't see one person claim 'she got what she asked for'. //

Didn't you?

Perhaps you missed these then -

Well he's done 2 1/2 years already so that should appease those who think he should be punished. I'm sure he's learnt his lesson. His behaviour however I doubt is as unusual as some of you think - getting drunk women in bed, maybe with others, maybe on camera, is I dare say far more common - sounds like well known behaviour for lads in Magaluf, San Antonio etc etc eg tonight lets shag the ugliest we can. Morals don't come into it.

Whilst I don't condone what happened he was never guilty I have been following this story and the woman was there for the taking she was so drunk didn't know what was happening and with who he should never have been accused of rape good luck to him and his girlfruend in the future but it will be difficult for them to get over this as he did cheat on her!

It’s good that an innocent man has now been cleared.
andy-hughes @ 16.25 described Ched Evans as ‘a man with the morals of an alley cat.’
I quite agree, but surely this description applies to the woman too.

Promiscuity seems to be the norm these days.

You get popped up dont blame the bloke. I have woken up next to someone I would not have slipped a length to under sober circumstances and that is just life. If women want want equal rites the thy need to accept this is the way of the world.

//the poor woman //

Right. :o)

andy-hughes, //But the woman concerned is innocent//

That's a matter of opinion.

In my view he didn't rape her, if he is guilty of rape then she is guilty of going back to a strangers hotel, into the unknown, what did she think they were going back for, to talk about football!!

being drunk isnt a defence to many things
just in case readers think it is

They should put signs up in nightclub toilets warning young ladies not to go to footballers' hotel rooms.

Of the posts I read, this came closest;
andy-hughes
//I don't think anyone comes of out of this sorry situation with their dignity intact - certainly not the two dreadful men who indulged in casual sex with a complete stranger, but by the same token, the girl who drank so much that she put herself in a dangerous situation.

It would nice if footballers and single young women learned a lesson from this - but that is sadly unlikely to happen.//


I am happy to admit that, since that post, my attitude to this situation has changed - entirely due to a discussion with some friends when the point about men's attitudes, and society's encouragement of those attitudes, gave me serious cause for thought, and re-aligned my position to that which I posted on this thread.

Changing points of view is an essential aspect of debate - if it wasn't, we would all simply stick to our views and never evolve them or allow that someone else's point is something we had not considered.

In conclusion spicerack, I am happy to concede that my point of view at that time has changed, if you are happy to analyse the evidence I provided, and admit that there were plenty of posters who were quite happy to view this woman as having 'got what she asked for'.

[Spicerack]

I did read those comments. Your post still comes closest to 'she got what she asked for' imo.
I agree with it, too. While a girl should be able to get paralytic, go home/to a hotel with a man and be perfectly safe from molestation, the fact is, they can't.

[Spicerack]

It was a nasty, sly insinuation from you, andy.
Suggesting that people on here, who happened to disagree with you re Ched Evans, aren't bringing their male children up to respect women.

[kvalidir]

The fact is also that the young male attackers are unlikely to remain teetotal whilst the girl is hammered out of her face, they are likely to be drunk too and drink makes perfectly nice normal people do extra-ordinary things they would never dream of doing if they were sober, so more than anything we need better alcohol awareness, because alcohol and certain types of drug abuse are the gamechangers in the way people behave.

[andy-hughes]

Spicerack - // I did read those comments. Your post still comes closest to 'she got what she asked for' imo. //

Then we must agree to differ.

// I agree with it, too. While a girl should be able to get paralytic, go home/to a hotel with a man and be perfectly safe from molestation, the fact is, they can't. //

And I am happy that we can both agree on that.

[andy-hughes]

Spicerack - // It was a nasty, sly insinuation from you, andy.
Suggesting that people on here, who happened to disagree with you re Ched Evans, aren't bringing their male children up to respect women. //

I think 'nasty sly' is putting it a bit strong, and I assure you I never ever insinuate!

But your point that I am suggesting that people who don't agree with me are not bringing up their male children to respect women is a huge leap in inaccurate interpretation of what I said.

If I had meant that, it would be what I said - it isn't because I don;t mean that, or anything close to it.

That black or white assessment - if you believe one thing, you must automatically believe another, simply does not fly.

My wider point - if you read what I actually said, is that there is a section of society who believe that some young men behave as they do because it is somehow hard-wired into their behaviour, and we must all shrug our shoulders in a "Shucks, young men, what can ya do … " dismissal of it as normal.

As I recall from the Ched Evans debate, it centred around his guilt in court, but with an unpleasant aftertaste of posters who seemed to think he was behaving 'as young men do' when faced with provocation which they are utterly unable to resist, placed in their way by wayward women with low self-esteem, or an inability to accept that returning to a hotel room must end in sex - consensual or not- and that, as I have said, is not acceptable.




Ss

[andy-hughes]

kvalidir - // The fact is also that the young male attackers are unlikely to remain teetotal whilst the girl is hammered out of her face, they are likely to be drunk too and drink makes perfectly nice normal people do extra-ordinary things they would never dream of doing if they were sober, so more than anything we need better alcohol awareness, because alcohol and certain types of drug abuse are the gamechangers in the way people behave. //

Absolutely - a point neatly side-stepped by the government's futile and expensive 'War On Drugs' nonsense.